I can not speak to current practice at the WMF, but I can speak to practice when I was there (ancient history, long ago, I know) when I say that this is something that was carefully considered and there were appropriate experts consulted at the time. Knowing the team there like i do, I'm confident that those plans have not lapsed, and that they continue to give appropriate (though not paranoiac) consideration to the realities of the world.
I also know that when I was there, we would have considered it inappropriate to share detail about those plans publicly, and I continue to believe that is good practice. Philippe On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria ... agree, but the > risk assesement we are discussing here is not about safety, but security. I > am sure we might not use them all properly, I am also not a native English > speaker, but they are not the same concept, right? > > Now, there were examples where looking at a dossier where the information > was about only the first one... that's the point here. I am talking about > events, the first email was about the place of the office... but the > motivation of a criminal act in both case can be overlapping, so they are > an unicum in a proper evaluation, IMHO. I am not expert in the field, but > if you start to assess the risk of someone harming you in SFO, that could > happen also in another place where many of the same people gather annually, > and that you also inform millions of people with sitenotices about it. > > Now, I don't say that you must inform a lot. But if you are not the police > you are also not the fire brigade, but you wouldn't write in a candidature > nothing or simply "if there is a fire someone is paid to extinguish it"... > you would make more effort, and we do. If you don't want to add another > paragraph in the final document, rename it "safety and security" but start > to think organically about it. > > Alex > > > > Il Venerdì 6 Aprile 2018 1:59, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> ha > scritto: > > > Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to be > addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the better > placed to assess the reality of the local situation. Open bidding > processes enable others to also critically look at the options, ultimately > we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling. > Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just getting a > taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely than > a terrorist event > On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or > here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in > it's way, an example of an unhealthy community. > > Look at what I wrote: > > "Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do it > mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain > point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and so > on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it > should be done." > that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct > experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You can't > prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it in > the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So, who > talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a joke. > > Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they > don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so far, > what such wikimedians do in their real life. They are able to focus on the > point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this question > in many situations, you will be considered unprepared. > > Alex > > > Il Giovedì 5 Aprile 2018 20:29, Alphos OGame <alphos.og...@gmail.com> > ha scritto: > > > I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it ! > Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's > rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course". > I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already > time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town, which is > what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a > matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders, plain > and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges, jesters, > masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc > (except of course if they are, which may happen). > > So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion instead > of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with armed guards, > sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door… > > Roger / Alphos > > > > 2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l > <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. org>: > > I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some > wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly > about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary > panic... of course. > > > Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites. > Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if someone > kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are > killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an > editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher. it's > an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere, and we > naturally react stronger. > > > It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the > attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or 6th > largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider the > facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder at > at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or > the seat of a multinational conglomerate. > > > If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many > people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the same > country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but > also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you > try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a > certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police > and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. > but it should be done. > > A.M. > > Il Giovedì 5 Aprile 2018 18:09, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> ha > scritto: > > > I read/receive related craps > <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ index.php?title=User_talk: > Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid= 831949995> > on > a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may > become a risk for WMF offices. > > Vito > > 2018-04-05 17:33 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>: > > > I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at > > YouTube's HQ a couple fo days ago: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ YouTube_headquarters_shooting > > > > Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does > > the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at > > community events in the US, and elsewhere? > > > > -- > > Andy Mabbett > > @pigsonthewing > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@ lists.wikimedia.org?subject= unsubscribe> > ______________________________ _________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@ lists.wikimedia.org?subject= unsubscribe> > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@ lists.wikimedia.org?subject= unsubscribe> > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia. org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@ lists.wikimedia.org?subject= unsubscribe> > > > > -- > GN. > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.comOut now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman > and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental > Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017. Order here. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
