I am both a long-time community member and a new WMF paid developer (in the SF office) so I think I'm in a unique position to clear up some misconceptions.
First of all, all this talk of secret listservs and IRC channels is malarkey. Yes, there are private listservs and IRC channels. All of them are private for very specific and well-established reasons. Most of them are only used in very specific circumstances (for example if there was a security breach that needed to be discussed privately) and tend to be very low traffic. They are not the places where important decisions are made. Secondly, the idea that developers here in the office don't interact with the community is absurd. The developers here interact with the community constantly. We discuss community opinion and ideas, we talk with community members all day long on IRC, listservs, and on-wiki. I'm amazed that the developers here ever get anything done considering how much time they spend documenting what they are working on and interacting with the community about it. The problem is they can't interact with everyone everywhere: Code Review, IRC, listservs, the Tech Blog, meta, Signpost, etc. So no matter what, someone is going to feel like they are out of the loop. The WMF is extremely interested in new developers interacting with the community, indeed they try to hire developers from within the community when possible. The notion that the foundation is hiring corporate drones who are only going to listen to their task masters is completely unfounded. Yes, there have been situations where the foundation has been given grant money for very specifically defined projects and those projects have been implemented without adequate community involvement. Everyone (including the foundation) knows that that's not how we want to do development in the future. As has been discussed throughout the past year, the foundation wants to move away from accepting any money with strings attached and away from relying on grants in general. Hopefully, if this year's fundraiser goes well, we won't have to worry about these issues in the future. Ryan Kaldari On 9/7/10 4:15 PM, Robert Stojnic wrote: >> I made seven suggestions. Only one was about actually dissolving the >> office, and I acknowledged that it might be extreme. What about the >> others? Why does the private IRC chat need to exist, for example? >> Why can't we have clear official statements that everything should be >> as public as possible and that volunteer developers should be treated >> as peers? Why can't teleconferences be replaced by public-logged IRC >> chats? Are these also too extreme? >> >> > Aryeh, I think many volunteer and more casual developers share your > concern. I in principle agree with your proposals, although of course > no-one can be forced to abandon private communication, and private means > of communication are always going to exist. I have raised similar > concerns about volunteers not knowing what is going on by not being on > secret channels of communication, in person, to a couple of members of > staff during last two wikimanias and developer meetings, and I had the > feeling they agreed with me. > > The community needs to be nurtured, and I think all new employees of the > WMF need to be aware of it, and at first interview informed that they > will *need* to interact with the community and with volunteer > developers. I think many programmers who have worked in programming > companies are too used to just talking and listening to their team > leaders and no-one else. It should be made clear that this is not how > things (should) work in WMF, and this should be an official position > from however is hiring. Or maybe it is utopia and we do need to have a > more stereotypical corporate setup, but I really hope not because > wikipedia is fueled by enthusiasm. > > Finally, speaking as a volunteer who is not on any secret IRC channels, > mailing lists or payrolls I want to share my experience in WMF software > development. Back in 2006 I wanted to make search better, and if then it > wasn't for Tim Starling to give me shell access and a couple of test > servers to play with, I think we would not have the new search, or at > least not developed by me. An act of kindness, but also a sign that a > core developer cares about what a relatively unknown volunteer is trying > to do and achieve. > > As for code review, I know the foundation knows how important this task > is, and that it is no 9-5 job, but one that requires an extremely > dedicated person with a great knowledge of the mediawiki codebase and > ability to comment on virtually every programming issue. The foundation > better pay this person well and not just hope for someone to fill in > this place in their spare time. > > Cheers, Robert > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
