On 29/09/10 20:25, Alexandre Julliard wrote:
Shachar Shemesh<shac...@shemesh.biz>  writes:

Did I mention that the automatic mirroring is a broken idea
implemented in a broken way already?
What do you consider broken about it?

Everything. The concept is that a RTL layout is just a LTR layout reversed. This is almost never the case. Almost always, some controls need to still be LTR (URL edit control, tree view of, basically, Latin registry keys, etc.) Defaulting to a mirrored UI means you need to base your redesign on something substantially different than the original, which I do not see as a good move.

Microsoft's implementation of this idea is just as crappy as the core concept. The UI often contains images that are part of it. In order to keep the thing even slightly okay, Windows automatically mirrors every image (yes, EVERY image) displayed into a DC which has the RTL attribute set. The MSDN page discussing this has hilarious images of the Microsoft logo reversed. Their OFFICIAL recommendation is to create localized Hebrew/Arabic resources of the images, which are mirrored at the source, so that after the UI second mirroring they turn out okay. Two wrongs don't make a right indeed.

All in all, it is my experience that starting with the LTR layout requires less work and is less error prone than starting with a mirrored LTR layout.

This aside from the problems I've mentioned before on this list, of the utter stupidity of having some windows on the same desktop with a close button on the left and some on the right. I know no one who finds this convenient.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we shouldn't implement this (except the window decoration part, that i think we should not implement). I'm just saying that I would rather if Wine's built in applications not participate in this madness.
Aside from notepad, for which the difference is very small, and most
people would regard a default LTR control as the correct behavior
anyway, what other applications are you concerned over?
Pretty much all of them. For example, Wordpad has combo boxes in the
toolbars, those won't be RTL without changing the process layout.
Winefile and Regedit have treeviews that would need mirroring, etc.

First, I'm not sure what the proper way to RTLize regedit should be. See above.

Less specifically, however, all controls that have BiDi settings can have those settings set through the resource for that control, without setting it for the entire application. In those cases that the layout is not control by a resource, we are pretty much in deep #...@$!@# anyways because of the reasons stated above. Whether it is Yaron doing the localization or someone else, they must have some way to change the layout in a way that is not merely mirroring, and whatever way that is, it will require being able to tell the system which controls need RTL and which don't.

Shachar

P.s.
I am going over the built in wine applications, and would like to point out for whoever is thinking of localizing "clock" that clocks in RTL speaking regions still rotate in the same direction.

--
Shachar Shemesh
Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com



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