You are nuts or spoiled on 5 gig or have fiber stuffed up every tower. 1 P2P on a 2.4 rural ap opening 100+ connections will packet flood an ap in about 1 minute. 2.4 will only realistically deliver 5 megs per radio. 1 P2P uploading to 60 plus users will be slowed enough to bring the bits per packet way down, then the packet flood ensues. Now put six sectors on a tower, with 300+ subs, 10 megs of back haul, then add 6 P2P and on top of that add three or four bit torrent users with 50 or 60 connections each down loading the best movie ever from Netflix, and now your backhaul starts the flood too.. And you are 30 miles from the fiber head in. Yeah, right... Don't tell me not to shape the traffic.
Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC Come on, you guys that sell "slow" broadband generaly don't have too much to worry about. It's not like if you got an ap that does 10 megs and you sell 50 512k subs that the one or three out of 20 running p2p is going to be very noticable. Try giving those 50 equal access to the full 10 megs and see what happens then, if you don't throttle the p2p. Travis Johnson wrote: > Hi, > If your network can't handle a small amount of p2p > traffic, you have bigger issues. :) > > Travis > Microserv > > George Rogato wrote: >> How do you cap the encrypted stuff? >> >> >> Travis Johnson wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> First let me say that we cap p2p traffic during the business day, >>> but >>> otherwise we let it run wide open. However, we sell our connections >>> based on speed. Whatever they pay for is what they get... none of >>> this burstable stuff, etc. If they want 512k, they pay for 512k. If >>> they want 1meg, they pay for 1meg. >>> >>> The problem with bandwidth caps of xx gigs per month is that NOBODY >>> else is doing it... not DSL, not Cable, not any of my wireless >>> competitors, etc. Once you start putting that limitation on their >>> connection, they will start switching to something that does not have >>> caps. If you have bandwidth limits in place already, there is no need >>> for the monthly limits. (This does not mean we allow 24x7 bandwidth >>> usage, but we allow "reasonable" usage). >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> George Rogato wrote: >>>> I think the way to go is to be able to identify the various types >>>> of >>>> traffic and rate limit them. >>>> And once we can do this, then it's time to pull out the menu of >>>> various offerings we can provide. >>>> Want a 3 meg x 3 meg burstable connection with a sustained traffic >>>> rate of 1meg x 256k and bandwidth cap of x gigs, it's price "a", >>>> want a higher something in your package, it's price "b". Want >>>> something different, then it's price "c". >>>> >>>> The sub can choose. Once they choose they know what they bought. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark Nash wrote: >>>>> This is a good debate. >>>>> >>>>> What you mention here, George, is something that's been on my mind >>>>> for the >>>>> last year or so. As Lingo/Slingbox/Netflix/Vonage/etc/etc/etc make >>>>> $$$ off >>>>> of our connections, where's our cut? The customer is paying for a >>>>> connection, yes, but at what point do we start charging more as >>>>> this content >>>>> proliferates through our networks? Bandwidth is getting cheaper >>>>> per meg, >>>>> you can get a bigger pipe for less per meg, you can do things to >>>>> lower the >>>>> cost of bandwidth. >>>>> >>>>> However, that should give US a better cash flow model, so we're >>>>> not so squeezed out that we feel like not providing service >>>>> anymore to folks who desperately want it. With more and more apps >>>>> providing high-throughput >>>>> content, it could easily offset the savings that can be realized by >>>>> going >>>>> with a bigger/cheaper pipe. IF IT IS UNCHECKED. >>>>> >>>>> My whole part in this discussion has been focused on not letting >>>>> our customers cost us more than they are paying us, and I still >>>>> say that deploying a system that allows us to be compensated for >>>>> heavy usage is a valuable consideration in any business plan for >>>>> an ISP. Bandwidth shaping, >>>>> bandwidth caps, bill for overages, dedicated bandwidth option. If >>>>> you have >>>>> this in place, you really need not worry about anything else with >>>>> respect to >>>>> high bandwidth usage. >>>>> >>>>> IMHO. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks everyone for listening to my half-rant. I'm going to get >>>>> something >>>>> done now. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Mark Nash >>>>> UnwiredOnline.Net >>>>> 350 Holly Street >>>>> Junction City, OR 97448 >>>>> http://www.uwol.net >>>>> 541-998-5555 >>>>> 541-998-5599 fax >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato" >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:51 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Another thought is >>>>>> >>>>>> Why wouldn't Vuze have to pay Comcast for using the Comcast >>>>>> network to >>>>>> support it's business plan. >>>>>> >>>>>> If they are relying on Comcasts network to store and send files >>>>>> to >>>>>> it's >>>>>> customer base, why should they be treated for a free ride instead of >>>>>> using a hosting provider like Akamia. >>>>>> >>>>>> Guess that is just as a significant point as any other, the fair >>>>>> compensation for services? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> --------- >>>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> --------- >>>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------ >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- WISPA Wants You! 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