Rick, When you reference Trango are you referring to the Access 5800 series?
On 11/1/08, RickG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree with Tom. I tried Canopy but didnt like this aspect of it. So, > I continued using Trango and love them! -RickG > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> Not to rain on your parade but... I'm a little confused on how 10.2 mbps >> is >> possible w/ Canopy. Advantage series peak capacity is just for short range >> customers, and a large percentage of the capacity can be voided by by the >> farther out slower non-advantage CPEs. When Up/down rate ratios have to be >> pre-fined (for syncing) that limits the radio from using the ful capacity >> of >> the Radio. Its one of the big reasons that we chose Trango 8 years ago >> originally, so that it was infact possible to get full radio speed in one >> direction when it was available in low usage time, so we could quote >> higher >> speeds to business symetrical customers. >> >> Sure, if we consider 14mb real world advantage best case for Advantage >> series, use all advantage series CPE, and do a 70 / 30 download to upload, >> sure 10mbps peak downloads are possible for a single client, in that >> scenario. Provided that the WISP was fine with all other customers being >> 100% STARVED at the time the one customer was monopolizing the peak >> capacity. >> We tried that once, and it was a big mistake because it caused latency to >> sky rocket for all the other customers when they first attempted to use >> capacity, and the feel of the circuit because very bursty feeling. The >> short >> pauses made it feel like something was wrong with the circuit. TCP could >> not >> deal with it properly, it needs time to tune. Because of TCP's reaction, >> it >> actually translated to a slower experience than if we just gave customers >> half the speed. So.... My Points is.... >> >> Your concept of bursting a HIGH capacity for short periods is a sound >> concept, provided that you never let one cusomer have ALL your bandwdith. >> Headroom is needed. We found that if we let our customers burst to half >> the >> radio full capacity, we could use the same technique sucessfully because >> all >> the other subs were NEVER starved from bandwidth. >> >> We tried pushing the limits, such as allowing 7-8mb out of the 10mb, but >> it >> was to risky to do that because there were times when the full 10mbps was >> not achieve, such as when link quality degraded and retransmission occured >> do to RF packetloss, or when small packets were being used instead of pull >> packet size. Customers would suffer with the effects of non bandwdith >> shaping. >> There was also some issues with how well bandwdith shaping worked on Intel >> systems at 10mbps, as 10mbps speeds is about the peak speed before it >> exceed >> Intel's interupt clock limits of 100 ticks per second, nor was common Fair >> Weighted Queuing method able to be operation simultanoeus to trying to be >> used with Burst bucket type queuing. (Unless you aren't using Intel) >> >> So if we have a 10mbps HDX radio, we would sell peak 5 mbps services, and >> this would allow us to deliver good non-bursty performance without delays, >> and let us acheive high over subscription rates. And if we had a FDX >> imulated radio, that downloaded at 10mbps, again 5mbps would be the peak >> speed we allowed in our bursting. >> >> To keep it Real, With Canopy Advantage series, I'd highly recommend to >> WISPs >> that they do not commit to offer peak speeds above 5mbps per customer. It >> can result in severe degration at some customers sites that could be going >> on, and the WISP never really know it if they weren't sitting in front of >> the end user computers experiencing exactly what the end user was >> experienceing. And if you don't believe me, and want to push the limits, >> maybe 7mbps, but anything above that... its getting risky. >> >> That is provided that you'd be advertising Real Transfer Speed, instead of >> gross over the air speed. There have been some WISP that have quoted >> "11mbps" for 2.4Ghz DSSS wifi systems that could only pass 3mbps, because >> they quoted Hardware gross specs and not real throughput. But in todays >> world, that is gettign harder and harder to do, with the many online speed >> test sites that are becoming common practice for end users to use to test >> their speeds. Its darn near impossible to get a full 10mbps speed test >> result from these test sites over a wireless nework, and much easier to >> achieve a 5mbps test, do to the distance, windowsize, latency variables >> that >> can effect TCP's real world throughput. (For example, 64k windowsize at >> 80ms, will only allow about a 3mbps transfer to occur). >> >> Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing Canopy... We have actually started >> to use some Canopy Advantage series on our shorter range sectors, where >> verticle pol was free. (because we can find them on EBAY cheap, with all >> the >> Muni projects going south). I'm actually very impressed with their speed >> and quality of RF. But I'm just sharing what we've learned with Bandwidth >> management, since we've been doing it since 2001. >> >> Maybe the Canopy 400series, can deliver the higher throughputs ? I heard >> Motorolla was planning on making a 5.8G model of teh 400 series? >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >> >> >>> Our Canopy customers are used to getting 10.2 Mbps download speed. If >>> the >>> start a huge file transfer they get wide open throttle for a while (that >>> while depends on their rate plan) then they get throttled until that >>> particular file transfer is over. Once they stop, wide open throttle >>> again. They love it. The power users call in and upgrade their rate >>> plan >>> all the time. Excellent up sell opportunities with zero effort. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Travis Johnson >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 10:30 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >>> >>> >>> How does Canopy fix a customer satisfaction problem? If they are used to >>> getting 5Mbps download speed and you have to cap them at 1Mbps, it >>> doesn't >>> really matter what platform you are using. >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>> Canopy... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:59 AM >>> Subject: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >>> >>> >>> Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth >>> that >>> you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And >>> what >>> do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down >>> speed. >>> (they don't know your throttling them though) >>> >>> >>> >>> Kurt Fankhauser >>> WAVELINC >>> P.O. Box 126 >>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>> 419-562-6405 >>> www.wavelinc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
