Hey Adam,

I am curious as to why you are saying the used Dragonwave deal didn't 
pan out??? 

I still have the system here and Mario can have it any time he wants. 
200 Mb full duplex with his choice of used 4' or new 2' antennas. I even 
offered to deliver it to your office over 100 miles away from me at no 
charge.

According to Mario the "deal breaker" was I was not going to let him 
take the link, install it, and "try it" for a week or two and then let 
him make his decision. He says he was worried about "interference". 
Well  I have more than forty 23 Ghz. links in midtown Manhattan without 
issue so I doubt you guys are going to have any problems getting a clean 
channel in rural Kingston NY.

$10K for a Dragonwave Airpair that is a little over a year old with a 
choice of either 4' or 2' antennas is a steal.  This link sells for $20K+.

The real issue was not interference. It was money. It's really a shame 
Mario couldn't tell me that instead of using interference as an excuse.

If anyone else wants this link I will let it go to them for $9K until 
February 10th. Get me offlist 

lakel...@gbcx.net

Bob


Adam Greene wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Following up on this thread ...
>
> First off, thanks to those who've offered advice off-list. It's been very 
> helpful.
>
> Looks like we're seriously considering Trango Apex 18GHz ... our used 
> Dragonwave lead didn't pan out.
>
> A couple other options have come up, too: E-Band's E-Link 1000 (~75GHz 
> licensed, at a promotional price) or Cablefree G1500 (a 780nm FSO product).
>
> Anyone have any experience / feedback regarding either of these two products 
> (or companies)?
>
> Again, we're trying to create a 1.2 km urban link in an ITU-R rain region K 
> zone, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of reliability, and sub-$13k 
> (price is an object).
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>
>
>   
>> You can go Dragonwave 24 Ghz Unlicensed
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Adam Greene
>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:41 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>
>> Just to resuscitate this thread ...
>>
>> We have a 1.2Km urban link, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of
>> reliability.
>>
>> We have deployed Mikrotik 5.3GHz and Radwin 5.3GHz and are getting
>> interference. We've also gotten interfered with on Alvarion VL 5.8.
>>
>> We'd like to do 80GHz Bridgewave, but it's too expensive.
>>
>> 60GHz Bridgewave doesn't have enough reliability according to the link
>> budget calculations.
>>
>> Without actually taking a spectrum analyzer to the location, what
>> suggestion would anyone have about the best frequency & radio to deploy,
>> to minimize interference issues, get ~100Mbps throughput and not pay
>> more than ~$13,000 (including advance replacement warranty)?
>>
>> We're thinking Trango Apex or Dragonwave ...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com>
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Half mile?  Ours is almost 2.5miles in an RF unfriendly rain zone.
>>>       
>> The
>>     
>>> link
>>> has been up for more than a year and the client has been thrilled.  So
>>> thrilled in fact that we've got another planned for them with a
>>>       
>> roadmap of
>>     
>>> more to follow.
>>>
>>> They're happy with the price and we're happy with the profit at that
>>> price.
>>> No reason to race to the bottom with yet another product when the
>>>       
>> market
>>     
>>> clearly supports the current price point.
>>>
>>> Again, what are the options available today that can produce 1Gbps
>>>       
>> with
>>     
>>> AES256 encryption at line speed?  The encryption alone can be valued
>>>       
>> at
>>     
>>> $10k
>>> - $20k depending on who you ask.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>       
>> On
>>     
>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:24 PM
>>> To: can...@believewireless.net; WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>
>>> I fully agree.
>>>
>>> I'll add... the value of millimeterwave is 80Ghz, to actually have a
>>> license
>>>
>>> for next to free. The FCC created that for provider's benefit, not for
>>> manufacturers to charge us more and put the savings in their pockets.
>>>       
>> The
>>     
>>> truth is that 80Ghz takes the same cost to make as 60Ghz. But for some
>>> reason the manufacturers try to charge s premium, a lot more for the
>>> 80Ghz.
>>> I get pissed off everytime I think about it. It just holds the
>>>       
>> industry
>>     
>>> back
>>>
>>> for no good reason.
>>>
>>> We aren't to the $8000 figure yet including licenses, but we are
>>>       
>> getting
>>     
>>> really close with Trango Apex's. Its just a matter of time, before
>>>       
>> Trango
>>     
>>> adds 24Ghz to their line. And Dragonwave is doing 24Ghz pretty darn
>>>       
>> close
>>     
>>> to
>>>
>>> the goal.  Thats my point on why 80Ghz vendors need to get it
>>>       
>> togeather
>>     
>>> and
>>> rethink their business plans.  Their high profit ride on the specialty
>>> short
>>>
>>> range market, isn't going to last forever, when 24/23Ghz can do it for
>>>       
>> 1/3
>>     
>>> the price. Most people would rather save money.
>>>
>>> They are going to have to bring 80Ghz to the $8 range to keep making
>>> sales,
>>> before to long.
>>>
>>> I'm not knocking the Bridgewve technology, its a great product. Sure
>>>       
>> for
>>     
>>> that half mile link, it can really get the highest capacity to its
>>>       
>> buyer.
>>     
>>> But how many of those $30k links will a WISP need?  Maybe 1 or 2? I
>>>       
>> can
>>     
>>> count 500 buildings off the top of my head that can justify use of a
>>>       
>> $10k
>>     
>>> radio.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "can...@believewireless.net" <p...@believewireless.net>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> A customer came to us looking for gigabit speeds between buildings and
>>>>         
>> had
>>     
>>>> the money to pay for it.  So, we quoted an 80GHz link w/2ft antennas
>>>>         
>> with
>>     
>>>> over 2 hours of down time and a licensed Dragonwave link that would
>>>>         
>> do
>>     
>>>> 300Mbps w/5 minutes of downtime at half the price.
>>>> Once they saw both in the proposal, the response was, "We really
>>>>         
>> don't
>>     
>>>> need
>>>> a full gigabit.  300Mbps should be fine."
>>>>
>>>> We have both 60 and 80GHz Bridgewave links and Trango Giga and Apex
>>>> links.
>>>> Bridgewave's are definitely the way to go for short hops where they
>>>>         
>> are
>>     
>>>> cheaper than doing a licensed link.  However, if Trango or Dragonwave
>>>> offered a 24GHz link that could do 100Mbps or more for $8k, we'd be
>>>>         
>> all
>>     
>>>> over
>>>> it and almost never think of Bridgewave.  Obviously Bridgewave's
>>>>         
>> SLE100
>>     
>>>> can
>>>> do it at that price, but even in our urban environment, customers
>>>>         
>> tend to
>>     
>>>> be
>>>> outside of the 1/2 mile range.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Tom DeReggi
>>>> <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it can't with 2 radios. But it can with Dragonwave DUO
>>>>>           
>> combining 4
>>     
>>>>> links for a total of 1400mbps. And Trango Apex at 700mbps is getting
>>>>> pretty
>>>>> close.
>>>>> But that is not my point. I personally do not think that peak
>>>>>           
>> capacity
>>     
>>>>> is
>>>>> the big factor in a buying decission for WISPs..
>>>>> Once you are in the 400mb + range, over subscription is your friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> What matters is getting distance, and increasing reliabilty, and
>>>>> affording
>>>>> to buy and install as many links as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPs don't need 1GB, but they could benefit from 80Ghz. Bridgewave
>>>>> needs
>>>>> more affordable 80Ghz models, that compete with the speeds that
>>>>>           
>> Apexes
>>     
>>>>> and
>>>>> Horizons can deliver. This is exactly why Bridgewave has been left
>>>>> behind
>>>>> this year in sales. WISPs are telling BRidgewave to take a hike, and
>>>>> embracing companies like Trango and Dragonwave, that have technology
>>>>> less
>>>>> trouble to deploy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure if you need 1GB, and its to the building down the street, OK
>>>>>           
>> then,
>>     
>>>>> Bridgewave can win that one. But 99% of the links that need to be
>>>>>           
>> bought
>>     
>>>>> and
>>>>> deployed, don't need to be 1GB.  I'd rather pay 1/3 the price, and
>>>>>           
>> get
>>     
>>>>> my
>>>>> ROI in one year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridgewave also has a hidden cost. The cost to pay for speed before
>>>>>           
>> you
>>     
>>>>> need
>>>>> it, before customers are reimbursing you for it, and the finance
>>>>>           
>> costs
>>     
>>>>> on
>>>>> that.
>>>>> Its ironic to pay finance costs on bandwdith before it is even being
>>>>> used.
>>>>> If I have a ROI of one year, I have a much lower finance cost per
>>>>>           
>> link.
>>     
>>>>> Sure
>>>>> if you have a RUS loan at 3-5% that probably isn't a bad problem.
>>>>>           
>> But at
>>     
>>>>> typical lease fees (20%), that adds up to easily doubling the cost
>>>>>           
>> of
>>     
>>>>> procurement over 3-5 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always felt Bridgewave to be overpriced, and because of they
>>>>> attempt
>>>>> to
>>>>> get top dollar for the rare circumstances where it is worth that,
>>>>>           
>> they
>>     
>>>>> loose
>>>>> huge amounts of  market share, to companies like Trango and
>>>>>           
>> Dragonwave,
>>     
>>>>> that
>>>>> fit a much wider set of diverse needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com>
>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:49 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Last I checked the DragonWave fell short of BridgeWave in raw
>>>>>> throughput/payload capacity.  The AR80X-AES we have deployed will
>>>>>> produce
>>>>>> line speed 1000Mbps with AES256 encryption.  I don't think
>>>>>>             
>> DragonWave
>>     
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> pull that off.  If so, please share the details as we're close to
>>>>>> deploying
>>>>>> another BridgeWave link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>>>>>             
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>     
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:34 PM
>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last quotes I have done have put Bridgewave much cheaper than
>>>>>> Dragonwave
>>>>>> for 1.2Gpbs... although Dragonwave by far has a range benefit to
>>>>>>             
>> it.
>>     
>>>>>> Daniel White
>>>>>> 3-dB Networks
>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>>>>>>               
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>     
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 2:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you are right. (To give Ceragon credit where credit is
>>>>>>>               
>> due).
>>     
>>>>>>> Although, I'm positive Dragonwave was the first to do it with
>>>>>>>               
>> 366mbps
>>     
>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>> radio ODU with Ethernet.
>>>>>>> Ceragon was stuck at 200-250mbps per ODU for a while there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its important to note that breaking the 350mbps barrier, and radio
>>>>>>> combining
>>>>>>> (for double) was a core accomplishment, that put the value
>>>>>>>               
>> proposition
>>     
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> 6-23Ghz above that of inexistence 80Ghz technology with multiple
>>>>>>>               
>> hops,
>>     
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> deliver near equivellent capacity, at lower cost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: <lakel...@gbcx.net>
>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 3:53 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> I believe (but not sure) Ceragon was the first with a DPRM mount.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But agree with everything else
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:32:12
>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good advice Bob, but I'll add.... There is a purpose for each
>>>>>>>>                 
>> model,
>>     
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> that matter also a specific manufacturer, and all ODU is not
>>>>>>>>                 
>> always
>>     
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example... Trango boasts several core benefits, for some
>>>>>>>> circumstances.
>>>>>>>> Its Giga Split archetiecture allows Coax installs to extend up
>>>>>>>>                 
>> to
>>     
>>>>>>> 1000ft.
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> (Dragonwave's Coax split Archetecture, still has limits to
>>>>>>>>                 
>> 150-200
>>     
>>>>>>> feet or
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> so, according to their docs.).  Trango's Apex allows optional
>>>>>>>>                 
>> Fiber
>>     
>>>>>>>> termination with a very easilly accessible connectors.
>>>>>>>>                 
>> (Dragonwave
>>     
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> other hand has the Fiber connectors poorly located, that require
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> case apart in order to reach them.) Because of this, for long
>>>>>>>>                 
>> cable
>>     
>>>>>>>> deployments, I prefer Trango.  Or if on short deadline, and Freq
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> Coords
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> complete, Trango equipment can be ordered in advance of
>>>>>>>>                 
>> completion
>>     
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> they can support more channels per ODU model. (For example, 18
>>>>>>>>                 
>> and
>>     
>>>>>>>> 23
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> Ghz
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> only have one ODU Pair choice).   Its also important to note, it
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> be midunderstood the purpose of Trango Gigas's 4 ports. They are
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> Private
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> VLAN.  This is really great for when a link needs to be shared.
>>>>>>>>                 
>> For
>>     
>>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>>> Port 1 for the customer that paid to get the link installed.
>>>>>>>>                 
>> Port2
>>     
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> ISP's other traffic to serve other clients in the building.
>>>>>>>>                 
>> This is
>>     
>>>>>>>> enabled
>>>>>>>> with zero complexity, that way.  The far end switch/router
>>>>>>>>                 
>> equipment
>>     
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> need configuration or being the same to accommodate segregation.
>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> useful for all installs, but in some cases, this is a unique
>>>>>>>> benefit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dragonwave offers different benefits... For example... The
>>>>>>>>                 
>> Airpair
>>     
>>>>>>>> supports
>>>>>>>> a whole wealth of different ODU Radios that can be interchanged
>>>>>>>>                 
>> with
>>     
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Indoor rack unit. If one doesn't buy advanced replacement
>>>>>>>> warrantees,
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> much cheaper to just order in an ODU seperately, than a Full
>>>>>>>>                 
>> outdoor
>>     
>>>>>>>> radio.
>>>>>>>> I'd rather float $3000 to get a replacements ODU in, than
>>>>>>>>                 
>> $12,000
>>     
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> full
>>>>>>>> Horizon.  We'd use All ODU models where we have live backup
>>>>>>>>                 
>> links in
>>     
>>>>>>>> place,
>>>>>>>> and can afford to wait for a Manufacturer replacement.   With
>>>>>>>>                 
>> that
>>     
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> love All ODU units, it makes for a much quicker/simpler install,
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> Zero
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Footprint needed inside. This is great for MTU buildings, where
>>>>>>>>                 
>> they
>>     
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be installed in small closets, or penthouse walls. The
>>>>>>>>                 
>> Dragonwaves
>>     
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> first to be able to combine radios for double the capacity, so
>>>>>>>>                 
>> more
>>     
>>>>>>>> expandabilty.  Airpair offers 25% more capacity than the Trango
>>>>>>>> giga,
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> split archetecture is needed.  Dragonwave offers a dealer
>>>>>>>>                 
>> channel
>>     
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> that will benefit from it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Bob Moldashel" <lakel...@gbcx.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> Well....a couple of notes...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes
>>>>>>>>> servicing
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> guessing
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> cable???  Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> run
>>     
>>>>>>>>> CAT5
>>>>>>>>> and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> in
>>     
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> lines
>>     
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> the
>>     
>>>>>>> ground
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> theft
>>     
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a
>>>>>>>>> security
>>>>>>>>> screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> to
>>     
>>>>>>> lock
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably
>>>>>>>>> consider
>>>>>>>>> another location.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With weather being a concern you could always install a second
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> parallel
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> fails
>>     
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> other could be engaged to carry the traffic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability)
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> 4'
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues.  At 6
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> Ghz.
>>     
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> are looking at 6' minimum dishes.  Figure 600-800 lbs per
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> antenna
>>     
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> installation.
>>     
>>>>>>>>> I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons.  1 - The service
>>>>>>>>> facility
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment
>>>>>>>>> overnight in emergencies.  2 - One year advanced replacement is
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> $500/year per radio.  Allows me to sleep easily.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> some
>>     
>>>>>>>>> growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is
>>>>>>>>> serviced
>>>>>>>>> overseas unless it is an interface or something simple.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> leave
>>     
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> name with a service and they call you back.  I have installed
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> more
>>     
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2
>>>>>>>>> failures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are other options but history, price or delivery will
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> kill
>>     
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> an option.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> all
>>     
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> control external to the radio.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paolo Di Francesco wrote:
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back
>>>>>>>>>> hauling
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> looking
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> "which
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> fits better for our needs"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just to summarize:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a) links are around 20-25 miles
>>>>>>>>>> b) antennas: the smaller the better
>>>>>>>>>> c) robustness is very important
>>>>>>>>>> d) average life: 3 years
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>> considerations:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> protected
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> from "sabotage and stealing". The "all outdoor" approach is
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> nice
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> will
>>     
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> have
>>     
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> half of the "banknote", so after the first or second time,
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> they
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> spend time having something useless.
>>>>>>>>>> 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> from
>>     
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> huge
>>     
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> 1300A) we
>>     
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> the
>>     
>>>>>>> tower,
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> welcome).
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> somewhere
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> swapping
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> ODU.
>>>>>>>>>> 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is
>>>>>>>>>> frozen
>>>>>>>>>> (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> does
>>     
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> change much, you have to wait the better season to work on
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> that.
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> 5) Performances look more or less the same.
>>>>>>>>>> 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> website,
>>     
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> still exploring this aspect
>>>>>>>>>> 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this
>>>>>>>>>> devices
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch?
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> Do
>>     
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>> need to reset them often?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Comments are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am I missing some other good brand?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> Date:
>>     
>>>>>>>>> 1/17/2009
>>>>>>>>> 5:50 PM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
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>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
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>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> 1/19/2009
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> 9:37 AM
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
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>>>>> 1/19/2009
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>>>>>> 9:37 AM
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>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date:
>>>> 1/19/2009
>>>>         
>>>> 9:37 AM
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