Whatever the contract states.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "RickG" <rgunder...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:15 AM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures > For how long? 1 year or for life? > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mike Hammett<wispawirel...@ics-il.net> > wrote: >> I think I learned in high school business law class that payment of a >> bill >> constitutes agreement with a contract. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "RickG" <rgunder...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:47 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures >> >>> Right on TOS and AUP but not the contract. If I understand contractual >>> agreements correctly, all terms must be clear to both parties. So, >>> just cause I pay a bill doesnt mean I understand my full obligations >>> such as length of terms, etc. I suspect that presenting the actual >>> contract electronically when the customer signs up provides full >>> disclosure but I'd love to hear from anyone that is using it now an >>> dif their lawyer blessed the proceedure. >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM, D. Ryan Spott<rsp...@cspott.com> wrote: >>>> I think in most states paying the bill obligates you to the terms of >>>> service/contract. >>>> >>>> ryan >>>> >>>> Charles Wyble wrote: >>>>> Ah. Gotcha. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for clarifying. >>>>> >>>>> RickG wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Having an AUP is fine but it doesnt spell out the terms of a specific >>>>>> obligation between you & the end user. The big carriers obligate you >>>>>> to two year contracts when you agree online so I'm assuming we can do >>>>>> the same. >>>>>> -RickG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Charles Wyble<char...@thewybles.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also >>>>>>> don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> signed contract if you pay for an install. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can >>>>>>> provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting >>>>>>> bits >>>>>>> on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that >>>>>>> network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> your IP rnage /AS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the >>>>>>> sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few >>>>>>> simple >>>>>>> route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the >>>>>>> Don't >>>>>>> Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus >>>>>>> (http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound >>>>>>> traffic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *sighs* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martha Huizenga wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> the install is done. Works fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason Hensley wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wow. Seems like a waste of time and resources. If I mailed >>>>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>> send the contract back. Send a contract with the installer, get >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one >>>>>>>>> back, done >>>>>>>>> deal. If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial >>>>>>>>> confirmation, >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> get an actual signature at install. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Scott Reed >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers. Right now we >>>>>>>>> gather >>>>>>>>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> wait >>>>>>>>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> installation. We would like to reduce the time from initial >>>>>>>>> contact >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> installation. One option we are looking at is "electronic >>>>>>>>> signature" >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but >>>>>>>>> thought it >>>>>>>>> would be good to get some other input. >>>>>>>>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it? >>>>>>>>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you >>>>>>>>> use? >>>>>>>>> What is good about them? What is not so good? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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