On Oct 11, 2009, at 1:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Bartosch" <ch...@clarityconnect.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:43 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth > > >> >> On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >>> I didn't apply for two main reasons. >>> >>> 1: they want the whole company and don't tell you when (if ever) >>> you'll get >>> it back. >> >> You can't sell the company without approval for 10 years. The general >> terms of that approval were that you couldn't be asking for so little >> for the company that it resulted in a windfall for the buyer and the >> buyer had to maintain the terms of the contract you sign with the >> government to get the money. > > I keep hearing that, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the > NOFA. > It's not in the ARRA, and I asked that specific question in > Billings. I got > a shrug of the shoulders.
IIRC, it's in the FAQ. Originally the statements (and I think this is what the NOFA said) were "for the life of the equipment" being purchased. However, that was later clarified to be "10 years". I'm not sure 10 years is better than "life" but <shrug>. >> It isn't unreasonable. The final terms of this requirement are worked >> out in the contract you negotiate once you're "awarded" the funds >> (you >> don't actually get anything just because you won the award...you have >> to sign a mutual contract first). > > As I understand it, it's far more than that. You can't sell any > assets > without government approval either. Want to trade in that old > install van? > Make sure you clear it with the "boss" first. What about old gear > that you > upgrade from? Just think about how hard it would be to get anything > done if > you had to ask permission for nearly all of it, from a desk jocky, > in DC. You can sell any asset that didn't come from the grant. If you had that van before, or bought the van not-on-the-grant, then you do with it as you please. If they paid for the equipment, it's only fair and right that they make sure you're not just buying it, and then selling it to make a profit that has nothing to do with providing the service they are paying you to provide. They have some ownership rights on the equipment you're trying to sell since they paid for at least half, and up to 80%, of its cost. As a taxpayer, I just don't see this as an unreasonable attempt to prevent fraud or unjust enrichment at "my" expense. I'd be upset if something like this *weren't* in the requirements. >>> 2: My areas are already covered better than what's allowed under the >>> grants. >>> We've done a good job in the past and our reward is government >>> funded >>> potential competition, gotta love that one. >> >> Yeah, having government funded competition sucks. So does having >> competition that is cross-subsidized by phone service revenues. Or >> television revenues. Or investors that don't know what they are >> doing. >> >> In the end there isn't anything really special about the funding >> coming from the Feds versus many other sources we have to compete >> around. It hurts the same either way. >> >>> Oh yeah, >>> 3: If you take Obama money you are required to wholesale access to >>> the >>> network at fair and reasonable rates. >> >> You're said this before and you've been told before this is not the >> case. > > Yest it is. It's in the NOFA. You have to open your network at > "fair and > reasonable rates". I asked about this in Billings too. Again, I > was told > to submit the question in writing as there is no definition of fair > and > reasonable already established. You're conflating two separate statements in the NOFA and you apparently either didn't ask a clear question or you didn't ask someone who understood the question (neither are your fault of course...if it wasn't clear to you it's hard to ask a clear question, and you can't help the understanding of the designated responder to your question) or the answer hadn't been determined yet. In any case, there are TWO separate issues. The first is interconnection. The second is wholesale. You DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN YOUR NETWORK TO WHOLESALE ACCESS. In fact, in the application it is two separate questions. The first you have to answer yes to or you cannot apply. The second clearly states it's optional, but worth extra credit under BTOP if you agree to do it. >> You are required to support Interconnection at reasonable rates on >> the >> part of the network you built with government funds. For a small >> provider that's an almost completely meaningless requirement. > > Really? Lets say I do a county wide network. I double my coverage > zone, or > more, with grant funds. I now have to allow "interconnection", > wholesale, You do not have to offer wholesale to anyone whatsoever if that's your preference. And the two (interconnection and wholesale) are NOT equivalent. The only reason I'm saying that *again* is because the statement about wholesale could potentially mislead others. Maybe ask Charles Wu, Donny Smith, or Steve Coran if you don't believe me. But please don't mislead others with this. > access to anyone that wants it, in at least half of my network. > What does > that do to my net revenue there? We don't know because we have NO > guidance > as to what they'll force us to sell services at to our competitors. > >> >> For large multi-region buildouts, that's got some meaning. > > Not at all. If ANY of my near by competitors get grant money to > install > systems, I'll be using the interconnection requirement as a way to > expand MY > coverage at NO cost to me. > >> >> You were NOT, however, required to support wholesale. That's a bonus. > > Um, what's the difference between interconnection and wholesale? Interconnection means the two *networks* are directly connected. That's all. It does NOT mean you can attach your customers to my network. That's wholesale. >>> Anyone know what that really means? >>> Me neither. I figure if someone comes here I'll just make them sell >>> to me >>> at good rates and I'll not have to deal with the grant hassles. >> >> You can interconnect with their network. If they are small it >> presumably means you set up a direction connection with them so that >> your traffic goes directly to them and vice versa without needing to >> transit to the outside world. > > Hmmmm > >> >> Interconnection wasn't defined really well in the NOFA however. It >> could also mean another provider could ask to use your network to >> reach the outside world. However, you get to negotiate for that >> access >> on reasonable terms, which means you could make a profit on whatever >> it is you provide them. Unless you agreed to arbitration (an option >> in >> the application), you couldn't be forced to do it really (since it'd >> be easy enough to set unworkable terms). A starting point for the >> negotiation would probably have been "what would access cost from the >> big guys" to your location? since that's presumably a reasonable >> place >> to be price wise. > > Unworkable terms certainly don't seen "fair and reasonable" to me. This question came up when I was at the FCC to discuss issues around the NOFA development. What they argued there is that "fair and reasonable" had to be defined by the market price in an area or near- by area. They have no other way of fairly judging when a price is fair and reasonable. That was their point, not ours by the way. > The whole thing is just sooooo convoluted, open to multiple > interpretations > etc. Shrug > > Anyway, the original question was why *I* didn't apply. Those are > still my > answers. Yep. A program like this isn't for everyone for sure. And I think you're right (maybe it was a different thread), many items seemed focussed on much larger providers than most of us. Chuck > marlon > >> >> Chuck >> >> >>> marlon >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tim Sylvester" <t...@avanzarnetworks.com> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:42 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth >>> >>> >>>>> Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply. >>>> >>>> I want to understand people's opposition to the Broadband Stimulus >>>> programs. >>>> >>>> >>>> Rick and other people opposed to the stimulus, can you expand on >>>> why you >>>> don't believe in the Stimulus and why you didn't apply? Are there >>>> things >>>> you >>>> think the government - FCC, congress, etc. - could do to help ISPs >>>> and >>>> expanding broadband? >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> -------------- >> Chuck Bartosch >> Clarity Connect, Inc. >> 200 Pleasant Grove Road >> Ithaca, NY 14850 >> (607) 257-8268 >> >> "When the stars threw down their spears, >> and water'd heaven with their tears, >> Did He smile, His work to see? >> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" >> >> From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -------------- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 "When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
