Yup! Really appreciate your help on that. Butch will be down there in early May for our ICNA training.
Jeff Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Jeff, Tone via email is hard to convey...<grin>, but I did warn this morning that I caught your voiding warranty email at a bad time. lol Certainly I agree ImageStream is a great breath of fresh air as compared to Cisco and many, many other products available. We have all heard and read how terrific the ImageStream products and support is. Additionally, our small group of fixed wireless operators is extremely fortunate to have an ImageStream representative monitoring and participating on this list. Without question hats off to ImageStream. I too have a great deal of respect for Jeff and the company he works for. In fact I think we may be seeing you guys down here in Texas soon for a training. No? Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:07 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) It might be exactly the same and it might not be Brad. I don't know. What I can tell you is that, in 10 years, I can't recall ever having to enforce this policy. Do you know of any other manufacturer who has support, warranty, and the router distro license follow the serial number of the router, not the customer? We recently did a lot of work for someone who was given some gear by one of our customers, much of it under warranty. We don't sell seat licenses for various levels of VPN tunnels, or anything else for that matter. Hardware incompatibility issues are some of the most complex things that we have to work through in support. It's often like chasing ghosts. Recreating the actual problem often requires putting together an identical router in our lab. You and I have debated this sort of thing several times, publically and privately. I respect you, and I respect your right to disagree with me. I'm proud of ImageStream and how we care for our customers. We aren't perfect, but we do everything in our power to help our customers. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) The point is ----> If the card is EXACTLY the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties "all in a wad" and void the warranty on the product. Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Last I heard Cisco don't provide free firmware upgrade/warranty especially on resold products unless specific IOS license is purchased with the reselling. Cisco don't provide free support period. With the myriad of PC based cards out there I don't blame IS for not providing warranty support on third party cards installed in their routers. How do you know that card isn't a cheap knock off card. Further even if it's not a knock off card maybe the revision of the card is newer or older then what IS provides and have tested out to work with their software. So should they then support a card they didn't make anything at all from selling and that they have not tested to work in their software solution? What if they came to the conclusion that specific card don't work well at all and simply decided to not offer this particular card and you buy and install this card in your IS router why should they support and warranty their router just to track it down to a non certified third party card being installed in your router? If they find this IMO it wouldn't be too much to ask for compensation for the technical support assistance you where given on a none IS product. Just like most ISPs they have their demarcation point at the Ethernet side on their CPE when they provide the CPE. So if there are issues with the client they do testing of the Ethernet side on the CPE and if everything works out well and the customer want you to trouble shoot further to see what is wrong with their computer or router almost all ISPs I talked to charge for it or they go so far as provide free broadband routers that they trust. I'm sure there are those that set themselves apart and will help out for free especially if the client is a higher $$ client or the client has a router the ISP trust in and like. I see little difference between these here. IS provide a boxed solution that can be expanded. They support and warrant their products, their cards they provide for the products because they know they work with their hardware and their software. If it doesn't they will fix it. Where is the incentive for them to fix a problem with a NIC card they didn't sell and earned any money for? When they sold the router they have appropriate margin to handle warranty and support on that particular product. If you want another card you might pay a bit of a premium over a third party card but that is the extra you pay for the extended warranty and support to handle this product as well. Just my 2 cents. / Eje -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) I completely agree if the card installed is 3rd party and completely different than what Imagestream, Cisco or any OEM sells. The point is ----> If the card is exactly the same as OEM, however being sourced from somewhere else other than the OEM, I don't see why the OEM should get their panties "all in a wad" and void the warranty on the product. Brad -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) Gotta disagree Brad- show me the price point differences between any Cisco and IS that are comporable - don't forget TCO for OS upgrades etc. Are you suggesting Cisco provides a cheaper HW upgrade solution? This is like pulling your car into the oil change station, handing the guy 5 qt of your own oil that you purchased for a few bucks cheaper and a new air filter.. Doesn't work that way- everyone needs a business model that's profitable. Thanks, 'S --- Sent mobile (and probably one handed while driving!) On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> wrote: > I may be wrong on this, but I doubt Cisco will void your warranty if > you buy an expansion card (exact same as you could buy from Cisco > directly) and install it in your Cisco router. > > I'm not suggesting Imagestream should be onboard with a user > installing something other than what Imagestream sells directly, but > if the card the end user installs is exactly the same....what's the > problem? > > Imagestream doesn't keep record of how a product was configured before > it was sold? So, if there is an expansion card added Imagestream can > simply say you need to remove that card before we can help you...not > just flat out void the warranty on the entire product. > > Anyway...just an opinion. > > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) > > How so Brad? > > We sell a complete, warranted, supported product. If you want to buy > the pieces/parts and build your own, that's great (and I believe that > you do). > How can we warrant a product when we did not put sell all the gear > that went in to it? If there is a product defect, how are we supposed > to know if it is our gear or 3rd party gear that caused it? Believe > me, there are enough variables in the process already. > > ImageStream provides a year warranty and a year of support (including > 24/7 emergency support) with all of our routers above the little > Envoy. > We offer > free lifetime software upgrades. We give a 31 Day Performance > Guarantee with all of our routers. Is it too much to ask that all > gear in the box come from us during that period? It's not like we > charge Cisco prices for RAM, NICs, power supplies, etc. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > Jeff Broadwick > ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) > +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:23 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) > > Void the Imagestream warranty for putting the exact same card > Imagestream installs is pretty chickenshit IMO. > > Sorry, you caught me at a bad time this morning... > > > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:01 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) > > Hi All, > > I do not recommend this if your router is still under warranty/ > support. > Adding 3rd party hardware to the box will void whatever is left. > > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > Jeff Broadwick > ImageStream > 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) > +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:24 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) > > You just saved many people hundreds or thousands :) > > On 4/15/10, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: >> Yup... that's the one. >> >> Travis >> >> >> Josh Luthman wrote: >>> Maybe this one? >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106036 >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to >>> continue that counts." >>> --- Winston Churchill >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tom Sharples >>> <tsharp...@qorvus.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Thanks guys! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Travis Johnson >>>> To: Tom Sharples ; WISPA General List >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imagestream (was Vyatta?) >>>> >>>> >>>> We installed several Intel Gigabit cards in our old Imagestream and >>>> they worked great. They were the $40 Intel desktop cards. >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom Sharples wrote: >>>> Just received the imagestream gateway router (vintage 2006 or so) , >>>> unfortunately it's equipped with 4-port T1/E1 cards, not ethernet >>>> cards (sigh). Does anyone know if these will work with standard >>>> (e.g. 3com, intel, >>>> whatever) 10/100 ethernet adaptors, or do we have to use a >>>> proprietary card? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Tom S. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:19 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, for that many NIC included, you got a steal. >>>> A single 4port Intel oem Gig card PCI-e costs $430 new. >>>> >>>> (Actually that is probably not true, cause its probably an older >>>> model that doesn't have PCI-E nic cards.) >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Sharples" <tsharp...@qorvus.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:10 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? >>>> >>>> >>>> I picked up the Gateway model, equipped with nine 4-port ethernet >>>> expansion boards, for $625 on Ebay. Seems like a good deal altho I >>>> don't know what this model costs new with the added ports. Way more >>>> than we really need. >>>> I'm >>>> looking forward to trying it out tho. >>>> >>>> Tom S. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vyatta? >>>> >>>> >>>> Call support and they can fix your ImageStream issues. Need to >>>> push a little bit and use the phone. To this day I've not had a >>>> response to my emails without a phone call. >>>> >>>> On 4/6/10, Scott Lambert <lamb...@lambertfam.org> wrote: >>>> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 11:37:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: >>>> I really think you'll love ImageStream... >>>> I don't mind the three living ImageStream TransPort routers we >>>> inherited. Once I changed the editor to default to vi, I was >>>> pretty happy. >>>> >>>> I am not much of a fan of the interface configuration, though it is >>>> currently more flexible and transparent than pfSense for multiple >>>> subnets on the same interface. The shellcmd plugin lets me have a >>>> GUI to get around the current inadaquacy of the interface >>>> configuration GUI of pfSense 1.2.3. >>>> >>>> I do find that I will make a change to the default route on the >>>> Interface Configuration file; it will reload sand; and I will have >>>> to go to bash and route delete default, route add default gateway >>>> newip manually. Or, I will put a new subnet on an interface and >>>> can't get OSPFd to talk on that interface until I reboot the box. >>>> >>>> Just stopping and starting OSPFd didn't work. I don't know if that >>>> is an indication that I have bad hardware or what. Using suspect >>>> gear for your first experience with a platform is probably not the >>>> best situation for figuring out what is what. The other 4 >>>> inherited TransPorts all have one or more blown ethernet ports so I >>>> haven't been able to use them. I can't point to anything on the >>>> other three that screams "I'm busted." >>>> >>>> Having to reboot is really annoying. Having to use the shell to >>>> manually apply desired configuration changes, annoying, but at >>>> least they give me the tools to do it. :-) I like flexibility. >>>> >>>> The biggest problem I have with going whole hog for the >>>> ImageStreams is, it would take me much longer to train guys to run >>>> the ImageStreams than it will take to train them to run pfSense. >>>> The secondary problem is cost : >>>> >>>> pfSense on Alix: $204 3 eth >>>> pfSense on soekris: $275-350 4 eth >>>> >>>> ImageStream on TransPort: $900 new 4 eth >>>> $600 e-bay. 3 eth >>>> >>>> We only do about 20 to 30 Mbps where I will have these deployed. >>>> More horsepower would be wasted. The BGP running pfSense box is a >>>> bit beefier than the Alix boxes, but didn't quite cost as much as a >>>> new TransPort. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Scott Lambert >>>> <lamb...@lambertfam.org>wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 07:52:41PM -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> One limitation currently with BGP is you cannot have more than 1 >>>> peer. >>>> I am awaiting that fix myself. >>>> In the GUI anyway. >>>> >>>> 1. mount -u -w / >>>> >>>> 2. vi config file >>>> >>>> 3. Don't change the config in the gui again until it gets updated >>>> to handle more peers. >>>> >>>> That's why I love pfSense, if the GUI doesn't support it, I can >>>> still make it work. >>>> >>>> I only need one peer for now. The only reason it needs to speak >>>> BGP is so I can announce a subset of our ARIN space to the transit >>>> provider. >>>> >>>> I've been tempted to just pkg_add quagga. But my long term goal is >>>> to not be the only guy here who can manage the network. >>>> >>>> I love PFSENSE - Chris has done an awesome job on that >>>> project. >>>> Durn tootin'. Chris and that other Scott, and Ermal and . >>>> . . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Scott Lambert KC5MLE Unix >>>> SysAdmin >>>> lamb...@lambertfam.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> -- >>>> Scott Lambert KC5MLE Unix >>>> SysAdmin >>>> lamb...@lambertfam.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: >>>> 02/08/10 07:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> --- >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ----------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ----------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> --- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > continue that counts." > --- Winston Churchill > > > --- > --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > --- > --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > --- > --- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > WISPA Wants You! 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