inline comments On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Fred Goldstein <fgoldst...@ionary.com>wrote:
> At 10/18/2012 02:52 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: > > MPLS does run over a IP backbone, but can use VPLS tunnels to create what > you are doing at layer 2. Not to mention you would get all of the benefit > of Traffic Engineering, and internal routing giving you the best of both > worlds. Why its sometimes called Layer 2.5, as it creates tunnels inside > your routed network, giving you fail over and multiple paths. With TE you > can also reserve bandwidth etc. :) > > > With some implementations of MPLS (TE required) and a whole lot of > fiddling, you can build an MPLS network that does pretty much what Carrier > Ethernet does, given enough skilled labor to keep it running. But Carrier > Ethernet is a big new market, selling like crazy, and there are thus a lot > of CE networks out there. (Cable companies and ILECs are both competing > for it.) > > Also, when you leave the "ISP" world and deal with the big-money "IT" > custoemrs, they have their own MPLS networks, and need something to run > them over. CE makes a good substrate for MPLS. Carrier MPLS does not > carry customer MPLS as naturally. In fact I think it would be fairly hard > to configure that. I know of some real users facing that, where a local > fiber network went in using MPLS as its basic service, thinking that a > government with its own MPLS would be able to use it, when they're > different MPLS domains. CE would be so much cleaner. Unlike RINA, where > there's never a conflict about recursing a layer, TCP/IP protocols tend to > be written with brittle interfaces to others that are expected to be above > and below them. > You can run MPLS tags inside a VPLS circuit. You would simply build a VPLS circuit on top of your MPLS network, the MPLS network is really the transport, the VPLS is your private layer2 network (or if you got VRF or BGP VPLS, you can run in layer3). Thus giving you the ability to run another MPLS network over your existing MPLS network. I am not disagreeing that CE could be cleaner, but I am not versed in all operations of CE, so its like comparing apples/oranges. The example that you used though was VLANs though. > > So while you can argue the merits of MPLS vs. CE for a brand-new metro > network, if you are looking for CPE to go onto an existing network, you > don't put an MPLS box on a CE network, or vice-versa! I'm looking at a > (different) real CE network going up now where there's an open question of > what CPE to use. I see a market opening for a Routerboard-priced SFP box. > But it doesn't matter if it costs $39, runs at 10 Gbps, washes windows and > makes tea, if it doesn't mate with the network and its services. > I just posted another question then, what features with CE specifically are you looking for in this box? > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Fred Goldstein <fgoldst...@ionary.com> > wrote: > At 10/17/2012 02:26 AM, Jeremy L. Gaddis wrote: > >* Fred Goldstein <fgoldst...@ionary.com> wrote: > > > At 10/12/2012 10:23 AM, Tim Densmore wrote: > > > There's a real market gap not quite being filled by our usual WISP > > > vendors MT and UBNT. MT has a new CPE router with SFP support. This > > > would be great for a regional CE fiber network. Let's say you have a > > > building (say, Town Hall) with multiple tenants in it, each with a > > > separate IP network (say, Town administration, Police, and School > > > Admin). You'd want to be able to drop off one fiber with separate > > > VLANs (virtual circuits) for each network, isolating the traffic from > > > each other. An MEF switch is cheaper than a real Cisco router but a > > > >I can't speak to Ubiquiti but Mikrotik RouterOS certainly supports MPLS > >and VPLS (and LDP and OSPF and BGP). > > > >The design you describe is exactly what the majority of the > >world is using MPLS VPNs for -- utilizing, of course, LDP and BGP (and > >occasionally OSPF between CE and PE). > > > >Unless I'm missing something... > > You're missing something. > > I was specifically asking about Carrier Ethernet. It's a protocol. > MPLS is a different protocol which, in the marketplace, largely > competes with CE. I know RouterOS supports MPLS. But CE is different. > > Disregarding that CE is much more multi-protocol in support than > MultiProtocol Label Switching, whose multi protocols are, in general, > IP and IP, CE semantics include explicit CIR and EIR support, along > with CBS and EBS (burst size) specification, on a per-virtual-circuit > basis. MPLS does not have CIR semantics; it just assigns relative > priorities, and is thus fiddly when offered traffic varies. > > At large volumes (once you get past RouterOS into carrier-class > products), CE is generally cheaper per bit than MPLS, at least if you > don't buy Cisco, which pretty much owns MPLS (it's their creation). > > Hamburgers are not chicken, even if both are often served for lunch. > > -- > Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com > ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ > +1 617 795 2701 <%2B1%20617%20795%202701> > > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > -- > > Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of " Learn RouterOS- > Second Edition <http://www.wlan1.com/product_p/mikrotik%20book-2.htm>” > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support > Services > > Office: 314-735-0270 <http://??> Website: http://www.linktechs.net – > Skype: linktechs <http://??> > -- Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com – 900Mhz – LTE > – 3G – 3.65 – TV Whitespace > 5-Day Advanced RouterOS Workshop -- July > 23<http://www.wlan1.com/RouterOS_Training_p/5d-stl-training-july2012.htm>rd > 2012 – St. Louis, MO, > USA<http://www.wlan1.com/RouterOS_Training_p/5d-stl-training-july2012.htm> > 5-Day Advanced RouterOS Workshop – Oct > 8<http://www.wlan1.com/RouterOS_Training_p/5d-stl-training-oct2012.htm>th > 2012 – St. Louis, MO, > USA<http://www.wlan1.com/RouterOS_Training_p/5d-stl-training-oct2012.htm> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > ** > > ** -- > Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com > ionary Consulting ** **** ** http://www.ionary.com/ > +1 617 795 2701 > > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > -- *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer** Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition <http://www.wlan1.com/product_p/mikrotik%20book-2.htm>” Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net – *Skype*: linktechs * **-- Create Wireless Coverage’s with *www.towercoverage.com* **– 900Mhz – LTE – 3G – 3.65 – TV Whitespace ** *
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