Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released

Tue, 05 Aug 2014 13:53:26 -0700

Constant spectral analysis was something I asked UBNT about awhile back for AirOS and UniFi... Cisco does something similar. I guess in the "easy method" it would doubles the chip cost in some cases, but it's very valuable to have this info for WISPs and people deploying high-density solutions. The ability to have the same data on the *remote* side of the connection is just as important as well, especially when it comes to helping identify customer issues (in the case of PtMP).
What kind of latency hit are we talking about in a 4 way 90deg PtP backhaul setup? Also, will you be developing your own shielded antennas for PtMP? 

Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com

On 08/05/2014 12:43 PM, Jaime Fink wrote:

+1. I swear it only took us a month to implement your great idea ;) 
 Alas good ideas do take time.



The trick Josh that we found was that it’s incredibly difficult to 
change channels fast enough and settle on the usual Wi-Fi chips which 
have limited driver access, often taking over 10 milliseconds of time 
to make the change.



This problem also had to be solved to handle constant spectrum 
analysis as well without service impact, down to 150 microseconds 
switching time to settle now.


Jaime


On Aug 5, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:



Funny thing is, Mimosa was already hard at work on an idea I 
brainstormed about in July :)

http://community.ubnt.com/t5/The-Lounge/Brainstorming-Maximizing-frequency-capacity-radio-system/m-p/899722#M32941

Josh Reynolds, CIO
SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com

On 08/05/2014 12:20 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

For some reason they tried to keep this whole company and product 
under wraps more than everything else.  Dunno why, it's not like one 
couldn't figure it out or pick it up from the intended secrecy.


At least it worked for one person =P


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


    You're... out of the loop.

    Josh Reynolds, CIO
    SPITwSPOTS
    www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>

    On 08/05/2014 12:09 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
    > The PtMP.
    >
    >
    > Matt Hoppes
    > Director of Information Technology
    > Indigo Wireless
    > +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
    >
    > On 8/5/14, 4:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
    >> What are you "what"ing?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> -----
    >> Mike Hammett
    >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
    >> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
    >>
    >>
    
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
    >>
    >>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >> *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 3:08:12 PM
    >> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
    >>
    >> Wait... whut?
    >>
    >>
    >> Matt Hoppes
    >> Director of Information Technology
    >> Indigo Wireless
    >> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
    >>
    >> On 8/5/14, 3:36 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
    >>> Jamie,
    >>>
    >>> We're incredibly excited by your announcement, and eagerly
    await PtMP ;)
    >>>
    >>> Josh Reynolds, CIO
    >>> SPITwSPOTS
    >>> www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com/>
    >>>
    >>> On 08/05/2014 11:30 AM, Jaime Fink wrote:
    >>>> 4 for the same channel is our general recommendation for the
    >>>> integrated antenna, angles will vary based on link
    power/distances,
    >>>> worst case is about 85 +/- 5 degrees, if we're going for max
    >> performance.
    >>>> That doesn't limit colocation on the tower at 4, that
    number can go up
    >>>> of course in different channels, and channel widths.
    >>>>
    >>>> We're finishing off a "colocation planner" in our cloud
    tools that
    >>>> automates those answers for you based on your radio
    location link
    >>>> plans, coming soon!
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers,
    >>>>
    >>>> Jaime
    >>>>
    >>>> On Aug 5, 2014, at 12:12 PM, "Mike Hammett"
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>> <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Thanks a bunch!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So then is there a hard limit of 4 radios per location or
    is that
    >>>>> just best you could do with the integrated antenna model?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Must there be an even distribution (every 90*)? I assume
    not, so
    >>>>> what's the minimum isolation?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If I had 6' super high performance dishes, could I put
    more than 4
    >>>>> radios up? Not that I'm likely to use dishes that big, but
    I do have
    >>>>> towers with four backhauls already and I would like some
    more in
    >>>>> other directions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Just trying to figure out where the number four came from
    and how
    >>>>> hard is that number.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> -----
    >>>>> Mike Hammett
    >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
    >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>
    
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
    >>>>>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>>>> *From: *"Jaime Fink" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>>
    >>>>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
    >>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 1:38:12 PM
    >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product released
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Mike,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Definitely wanted to clarify on your question/comment on
    colocation
    >>>>> capacities for the group.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> For the B5 backhaul PTP technology, colocation is in separate
    >>>>> directional paths, so 4 of the B5s can be colocated
    sharing the same
    >>>>> channels, but must be directionally coordinated, this
    leverages
    >>>>> integrated 1PPS GPS+GLONASS TDMA sync.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> As Fred pointed out nicely, the B5 has a fantastic aperture
    >>>>> efficiency integrated antenna that is about as clean as
    there is out
    >>>>> there, and the RF isolation techniques needed to get us to
    that
    >>>>> performance.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No magic pixie dust, just great technology.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Looking to the future, for sharing the same antenna
    pattern/path, I
    >>>>> absolutely see these capacities, but that will more be
    leveraged for
    >>>>> PTMP beamforming and MU-MIMO technology shared across multiple
    >>>>> clients. We’re on public record about the work that we’re
    doing with
    >>>>> our partner Quantenna on their next generation technology
    they’ve
    >>>>> announced for 2015 called 10G Wi-Fi. You can imagine the
    amount of
    >>>>> compute that takes, bordering more on magic pixie dust!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Cheers!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *Jaime Fink* • *Mimosa* • *Chief Product Officer*
    >>>>> 300 Orchard City Dr Ste 100 • Campbell • CA 95008 •
    www.mimosa.co <http://www.mimosa.co/>
    >>>>> <http://www.mimosa.co <http://www.mimosa.co/>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged
    material for the
    >>>>> sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use,
    distribution
    >>>>> or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are
    not the
    >>>>> intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the
    recipient),
    >>>>> please contact the sender by reply email and delete all
    copies of
    >>>>> this message.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Mike Hammett
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      >From a TechCrunch article:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      The B5 backhaul radio is a piece of hardware that uses
    >>>>>      multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO) technology
    to provide
    >>>>>      up to 16 streams and 4 Gbps of output when multiple
    radios are
    >>>>>      using the same channel.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      Now I wonder if that is four radios on the same path?
    If so,
    >>>>>      that's pretty amazing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      -----
    >>>>>      Mike Hammett
    >>>>>      Intelligent Computing Solutions
    >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>
    
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
    >>>>>
    >>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>>>>      *From: *"Fred Goldstein" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>>      <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>>
    >>>>>      *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >>>>>      *Sent: *Tuesday, August 5, 2014 11:21:29 AM
    >>>>>      *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New product
    released
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      On 8/5/2014 11:21 AM, Adair Winter wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>          I didn't want to be negative nelly this morning.
    But that was
    >>>>>          my thought also..
    >>>>>          I'm moving as much as possible to licensed links
    because I
    >>>>>          can't hardly keep my 5Ghz PtP's running out of my
    data center.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      The 5 GHz band is getting quite crowded, but at least
    this new
    >>>>>      radio seems to be efficient in how it uses the
    spectrum.  Any of
    >>>>>      these U-NII radios essentially transmits based on
    demand.  If
    >>>>>      traffic is 10 Mbps and the link is capable of 500
    Mbps, it won't
    >>>>>      be on the air very much of the time.  So it doesn't
    need the
    >>>>>      frequency all to itself.  We are doing a lot of urban
    links and
    >>>>>      share the frequencies with all sorts of stuff,
    including "Cable
    >>>>>      WiFi" (all over, even below 5250, ugh), but it
    doesn't kill
    >>>>>      performance, at least for the type of moderate load
    applications
    >>>>>      (mostly cameras) we're supporting on 5 GHz.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      We do most of the backhaul on higher frequencies but
    5 GHz is
    >>>>>      sometimes used as a backup to take over during rain
    fade.  During
    >>>>>      the storm last week that brought a tornado just a few
    subway
    >>>>>      stops from downtown Boston, we even lost 11 GHz links
    for time.
    >>>>>      The rainfall was off the charts for the second time
    in a month.
    >>>>>      But 5 Ghz links hardly noticed it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      Also to Mimosa's credit, it comes with a 44 cm 25 dB
    dish, whose
    >>>>>      narrowness helps with frequency reuse.  It will
    probably produce
    >>>>>      a lot less clutter than outdoor access points, or
    even some
    >>>>>      indoor access points that use more power than
    necessary.  (We put
    >>>>>      a NanoBridge 5G25 on a hilltop and were able to pick
    up WLANs
    >>>>>      inside office towers four miles away.) And they are
    petitioning
    >>>>>      the FCC to open up 10 GHz under Part 90 (light
    licensing, like
    >> 3650).
    >>>>>
    >>>>>          On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Matt Hoppes
    >>>>>          <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>>          <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>              Oh dear.... so more backhauling noise on the
    5GHz spectrum?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>              AF5 + Mimosa....
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>              Matt Hoppes
    >>>>>              Director of Information Technology
    >>>>>              Indigo Wireless
    >>>>> +1 (570) 723-7312 <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
    <tel:%2B1%20%28570%29%20723-7312>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>              On 8/5/14, 9:31 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
    >>>>>              > Have to give them credit on the website.
    Nice look J
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > *_Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified
    Trainer_**Author
    >>>>>              of "Learn
    >>>>>              > RouterOS- Second Edition
    >>>>>              >
    <http://www.wlan1.com/product_p/mikrotik%20book-2.htm>”
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >  Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP
    Support
    >>>>>              > Services
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >  Office*: 314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>
    <tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>>
    >>>>>              <tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>
    <tel:314-735-0270 <tel:314-735-0270>>> *Website*:
    >>>>>              > http://www.linktechs.net
    <http://www.linktechs.net/> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
    >>>>>              <http://www.linktechs.net/> – *Skype*:
    >>>>>              > linktechs
    >>>>>              > <skype:linktechs?call>
    >>>>>              > */ /**/-- Create Wireless Coverage’s with
    >>>>>              /*www.towercoverage.com
    <http://www.towercoverage.com/> <http://www.towercoverage.com/>
    >>>>>              >
    <http://www.towercoverage.com/>*//*/–*900Mhz – LTE – 3G
    >>>>>              – 3.65 – TV
    >>>>>              > Whitespace  */
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > *From:*[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>>  <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >>>>>              [mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    >>>>>  <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>]
    >>>>>              > *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
    >>>>>              > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:49 AM
    >>>>>              > *To:* WISPA General List
    >>>>>              > *Subject:* [WISPA] Mimosa Networks New
    product released
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > http://www.mimosa.co/home/b5-page.html
    <http://www.mimosa.co/home/b5-page.html>
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > Gino A. Villarini
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > President
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > www.aeronetpr.com
    <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
    >>>>>              <http://www.aeronetpr.com
    <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>>
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > @aeronetpr
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>              > _______________________________________________
    >>>>>              > Wireless mailing list
    >>>>>              > [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >>>>>              >
    http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
    >>>>>              >
    >>>>>  _______________________________________________
    >>>>>              Wireless mailing list
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    >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>          --
    >>>>>
    >>>>>          Adair Winter
    >>>>>          VP of Network Operations / Owner
    >>>>>          Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <tel:806.316.5071>
    >>>>>          C: 806.231.7180 <tel:806.231.7180>
    >>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
    <http://www.amarillowireless.net/>
    >>>>>          <http://www.amarillowireless.net/>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>  _______________________________________________
    >>>>>          Wireless mailing list
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    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>      --
    >>>>>       Fred R. Goldstein      k1io     fred "at"
    interisle.net <http://interisle.net/>
    >> <http://interisle.net <http://interisle.net/>>
    >>>>>       Interisle Consulting Group
    >>>>> +1 617 795 2701 <tel:%2B1%20617%20795%202701>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>  _______________________________________________
    >>>>>      Wireless mailing list
    >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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    >>>>>  _______________________________________________
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    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>> Wireless mailing list
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    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
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    >>>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>> Wireless mailing list
    >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
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    >>>>
    >>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>> Wireless mailing list
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    >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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    >> _______________________________________________
    >> Wireless mailing list
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    >>
    >>
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