On 12/31/2014 8:45 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
So then what do you guys think should be the desired functionality,
standards, etc. we'd want out of MEF\CE in a WISP "router"?
Interesting point Dan made about the price of certification. Not that
it's outrageous as these things go, but it's a cost that needs
justification. The MEF 9 and 14 specs are key, to be "compliant" even
if not "certified". It's the ability to provision virtual circuits (by
whatever name) between points on a network, with settable CIR and
defined delay variance. Contrast with MPLS, which sets relative
priorities but (except for the -TE variant) doesn't have actual rates,
and yet is more complicated. Carrier Ethernet is relatively simple. In
fact it's so simple that even Verizon can provision it.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Daniel White" <[email protected]>
*To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
*Sent: *Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:34:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Okay my 2 cents – and I’m largely taking my vendor hat off here.
So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some
Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731
in their Integra radios)… there is A LOT of certifications for MEF…
http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications
OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I’m sure Mikrotik, just like many
manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already
are on things like 9 & 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just
joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP
focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn’t the only router manufacturer
focused on WISP’s right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there
will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their
networks… probably a handful here) isn’t worth the investment. So
make it worth the investment. :-)
Carrier Ethernet is many things, it’s not just one thing. And what it
is has different definitions to different people.
Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications
Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is
not a specific thing… but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an
ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an
interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35,
35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25.
SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF
develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant.
An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line
the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get
equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and
IEEE. Kinda like a good ol’ boys club (together we set the standard,
and I promise I’ll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of
money for “Certification” to block your competition)… Usually on the
Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones
that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be
heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get
certification… but the cost barrier to entry is high.
My point being – make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you
are asking for. Don’t say “you need carrier Ethernet” or “you need MEF
compliance/certification” but instead be specific “I’d like Y.1731
compliance in your equipment.” Point to a specific standard… it helps
a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it – some
of their hardware probably can’t support it (or at least well).
Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But
all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the
case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I
can’t promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF
know what MEF is… but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet
stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF
engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing
department know.
cid:[email protected]
*Daniel White* | Managing Director
*/SAF North America LLC/**//*
**
*Cell:***
(303) 746-3590
*Skype:***
danieldwhite
*E-mail:***
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> _
*/SAF Tehnika & Integra Introduction Video
–/*///_http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg_/
*/Spectrum Compact Introduction Video – /*/http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k/
cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32
<https://www.facebook.com/SAFTehnika>cid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509
<https://twitter.com/SAFTehnika>cid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBE
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/saf-tehnika-jsc>cid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56-9097-3F468F84263A
<http://www.youtube.com/user/SAFTehnika>
SAF Tehnika JSC www.saftehnika.com
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Not the same when you are a router manufacturer…
Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr
*From: *Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Reply-To: *WISPA General List <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Date: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:05 PM
*To: *WISPA General List <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS?
So... have you asked for it yet? :-p
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Gino Villarini" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you
f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess
that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market
Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini
On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has
ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the
work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with
requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I
invite you all to.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Gino Villarini" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"WISPA General List" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
And they agreed?
Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini
On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification.
For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys
have for all of the gear they use.
http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview
http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications
Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document
the performance of circuits I provide.
https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
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Interisle Consulting Group
+1 617 795 2701
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