Hi Steve, Please see my replies below... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: IE browser share now 93% in 2002 (Off topic news)
> I didn't realize that BC's exchange rate was higher than Ontario's. <@GRIN> Sorry - I forgot you were one of us poor Canadians :-} > There is plenty to agree with in your comments. One thing that I've really > enjoyed about this list is that with topics like this, it has become a forum > to share our opinions. Unfortunately there was a period about a year ago > when it was just plain ugly. Well said. Likewise - I'm not trying to be ugly. Just presenting the prespective that our potential shouldn't be limited by 'industry' view points. Otherwise, where would innovation be? > Whenever possible I try to follow the principles of people like Jakob > Nielsen who is one of the leading supporters of Web Usability. He does agree > that whenever the developer can control or knows for 100% certain that all > users will be using a certain browser and version than development can be > done to utililize that particular browser. So I agree with your comments > when it comes to developing for an intranet. > > However let me give you an Extranet 'for instance'. You develop a site for a > client to use as an Extranet. One of their users routinely visits two > Extranet sites, the one that you developed and another that was developed to > support both Netscape and IE. Their browser of choice happens to be > Netscape. Why should he switch browsers simply to be able to visit one site? > I would think that it would develop a level of dissatisfaction in that user > that might reach the point where he says "forget it" and stops dealing with > your client's site which may lead to him or her finding another supplier. > Your client can't understand why he/she lost a customer. I would think tha t > in most cases, if there is a surcharge up front for making sure that > Netscape works the client is likely to say forget it. Good point, but you can't please everyone all the time :-) If you try, you'll loose yourself in the process. > With regards to your characterization about IE being more forgiving. Another > way of looking at it could be that any surcharge to ensure other browsers > work is just a surcharge to cover poor development skills. Ouch! Well I guess I'm just a poor developer because I hate Netscape. Funny though that I've got more work than 3 people can handle :-} >Following on that > thought of course we shouldn't be made to pay for poor work that we do, we > should pass the buck. <@GRIN> I'm not trying to beat anyone up here, my post > was to point out that in the short history of the web we've heard the > expression, "the King is dead, long live the King" enough times to know that > nothing has stayed on top for very long. Change is imminent, change is also > very good. Yes, change is always good! And MSIE's superior support for Technologies such as XML is changing the web-development landscape considerably. The problem is some people are trying to change it back to the way it was. Good luck :-] > Hope this helps, Thank you for your time and your thoughts Steve. Take care. Cheers.... Scott > Steve Smith > > Skadt Information Solutions > Office: (519) 624-4388 > GTA: (416) 606-3885 > Fax: (519) 624-3353 > Cell: (416) 606-3885 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: http://www.skadt.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Scott Cadillac > Sent: June 14, 2002 12:44 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: IE browser share now 93% in 2002 (Off topic > news) > > > Hi Steve, > > Please see my replies below.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:51 AM > Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: IE browser share now 93% in 2002 (Off topic news) > > > > I got into the PC game in 1985. At the time, (on the Intel side) everyone > > either bought IBM or bought a clone although some bought from a new > company > > called Compaq. Almost every machine went out the door with a copy of > > WordPerfect and/or Lotus 123. These were the ONLY applications in their > > respective fields. I might be mistaken but I seem to recall WordPerfect > > charging a 'premium' for support, mainly because they could. > > > > Nobody had heard of Dell, Microsoft couldn't give Word away, and few if > > anyone knew they had a product called Excel. > > > > Around 1996 I remember supporting Tango 1.5 customers who were running > into > > problems caused by people hitting the sites they were developing who were > > using this 'new' Internet Explorer browser. Many just gave up and said > that > > they would not worry about the problems from this browser because there > were > > so few people using it. Hmmmm... > > A very good point Steve and an interesting tale too :-) > > As a matter of fact, I've been watching the recent Gold release of Mozilla > 1.0 with interest (and have even installed it). Although my developer career > revolves around building Intranet Applications designed exclusively for MSIE > (specifcally 5.0 or higher on Windows) - I am trying to be prepared for an > evolving future. > > If someone could actually build a 'standards' compliant browser that WORKS! > then I would consider it for inclusion in our development plans - but until > then, the current versions of MSIE is the only browser that delivers what it > promises (90% of the time). > > > > And correct me if I'm wrong but aren't many of the 'problems' associated > > with current versions of Netscape typically the work of sloppy coding that > > Netscape gets picky about but that IE just lets slip through? > > My personal characterization is that MSIE is more forgiving and inventive - > whereas Netscape just can't cope :-). > > > > I hate the idea of a surcharge being placed on coding for a 'different' > > browser. > > Time is money. Should we be the ones that pay the penalty by giving away our > time to debug HTML and JavaScript, that more often doesn't work in > Netscape - but does work in MSIE? > > > >What will be next? A surcharge for developing for users who 'Think > > Different'? > > I can't speak for anyone else - but our 'Market' is users that 'Think > Different'. > > We build Intranet Applications for Business users (and Accountants) that are > tired of funky web-sites with lots of pretty graphics or are loaded down > with Applets and Plugins. > > Our users that 'Think Different' want meat, functionality, flexiability and > they want it fast and without hassle. And they are thinking about this > outside of the simple HTML box. XML and several of Microsoft's Extension > play are large part in this by giving me Databinding, Behaviours and a > workable DOM via JScript. > > Should I dumb down all my functionality so a few other Browser wannabes can > play catch up - and limit my customer's abilities? I don't think so. > > Obviously I am talking about Intranet and Extranet Applications and not > public Internet sites in general, so please forgive me for muddying the > waters of this interesting discussion. > > > > Just my 2 cents, > > My 18 cents (Canadian Exchange :-). > > > > Steve Smith > > > > Skadt Information Solutions > > Office: (519) 624-4388 > > GTA: (416) 606-3885 > > Fax: (519) 624-3353 > > Cell: (416) 606-3885 > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Web: http://www.skadt.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Macfarlane > > Sent: June 14, 2002 10:37 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > > Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: IE browser share now 93% in 2002 (Off topic > > news) > > > > > > I have a retail site with over 600,000 visitors a month. The stats are > > about the same. > > > > We're thinking on a surcharge for Netscape compatibility on projects. > > 90% of the debugging time is taken up by Netscape rendering issues. If > > satisfying 7% of your client base is important, then pay up. > > > > ....now if Microsoft would only make IE available as a plug-in for > > Netscape the problem would be solved (grin). > > > > - James > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Garth Penglase > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:46 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: IE browser share now 93% in 2002 (Off topic > > news) > > > > > > I would say that to use those statistic to prove that you need only code > > > > for IE is dangerous, as there is a much higher showing, right across the > > > > board, of existing NS browsers and Other browser users, on the web sites > > > > that I control. And nothing stays the same for too long in tech anyway. > > > > Remember different sources give different statistic on this, and the > > stats > > are be based on different questions (ie don't believe to much what you > > read > > from one source). Believe me, it'd make life a lot easier if there was > > only > > one browser to code for. > > Garth > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
