My comments are interleaved in the BBC list and Bill's comments.
--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> My comments are embedded in your list below. If I don't comment on
something it means I agree:
> --- In [email protected]
</group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=zu3WFy5ix_YcAZ7K5YvS7cAQX5OdaPmA1f5c2tC8Hu\
0JHMuVoadnl5t4wgxlvSmm92yGkGETv7hff4dE7MYzMQ0aIQ> , "ED"
<seacrofter001@...> wrote:
>
> > Clues to the meaning of Zen
> > Because Zen is so hard to explain here are some quotations that may
help you get an idea of it:
> > * The essence of Zen Buddhism is achieving enlightenment by seeing
one's original mind (or original nature) directly; without the
intervention of the intellect.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and awakening to an undefined
and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * Zen is big on intuitive understanding, on just 'getting it', and
not so hot on philosophising.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * Zen is concerned with what actually is rather than what we think
or feel about what is.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * Zen is concerned with things as they are, without trying to
interpret them.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * Zen points to something before thinking, before all your ideas.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * The key to Buddhahood in Zen is simply self-knowledge.
> [Bill!] I don't think 'knowledge' is a good choice of words. I'd
substitute 'awareness'.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
> > * To be a human being is to be a Buddha. Buddha nature is just
another name for human nature - true human nature.
[ED] Zen is only concerned with practice, and the awakening to an
undefined and undefinable state of mind referred to as 'Buddha Nature'.
[ED] Human Nature is human nature; Buddha Nature is buddha nature.
> [Bill!] Buddha Nature applies to all sentient beings, not just humans.
[ED] Bill, this assumption cannot be verified or denied.
> > * Zen is simply to be completely alive.
[ED] This could be a state experienced more frequently or more deeply
after awakening to Buddha Nature.
> > * Zen is short for Zen Buddhism. It is sometimes called a religion
and sometimes called a philosophy. Choose whichever term you prefer; it
simply doesn't matter.
> [Bill!] I definitely classify Zen Buddhism as a religion. All
religions do have some philosophy in them. Just plain 'zen' however is
not a religion or a philosphy. (See below)
[ED] All religions as well as Zen, Chan, etc. are 'worldviews', which
are based on implicit and explicit assumptions and beliefs.
> > * Zen is not a philosophy or a religion.
[ED] Zen like any other 'religion' is a worldview based on assumptions
and beliefs.
> > * Zen tries to free the mind from the slavery of words and the
constriction of logic.
[Bill!] Zen doesn't 'try' to do anything.
[ED] In the process of the practice of Zazen, the mind loses interest in
verbalizing and effortlessly discounts the value of rational thought.
> > * Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's
own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom.
> [Bill!] I don't like the references to 'bondage' and 'freedom'. Zen is
not a silver bullet-train to happiness. It is acceptance of life as-is.
[ED] Allegedly, in the Sino-Japenese literature on Chan/Zen, one of the
fingers pointing to the moon of the awakening to Buddha Nature is:
"Gedatsu: liberation, emancipation; freedom from all bonds" -- whatever
that means!
> > * Zen is meditation.
[ED] Zen is the practice of Zazen, with the potential non-striven-for
awakening to Buddha Nature.
