Mayka, Words! Words! Words! They'll be the death of us all...
By 'faith' I mean any belief you hold that is not based on actual experience. I ASSUME what you mean when you say 'faith based on experience' is that you interpret and extend the experience, and then form a concept and belief of that interpretation or extension. The experience is real. Perhaps the interpretation or extension is done by applying logic or wishful thinking - it really doesn't matter. The interpretation or extension is not real. It's illusion. If you form a belief around that illusion then that's faith. Is that what you mean? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > Bill: >  > What about when faith comes out from something one has experienced to be of > well being to one and the whole universe?. What about when faith is based in > awareness?.  Would all that also be considered a religion? >  > Mayka > > --- On Wed, 30/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Is Zen a religion? > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 7:36 > > >  > > > > Mayka, > > If you had that faith you would be practicing zen religiously. There's > nothing wrong with faith and religion. I never said there was. > > I do say that the essense of zen is not faith-based and its practice is not a > relgion...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > Bill; > > à> > ...And yet I wish I àhad moreàfaith in the practice ofàzazen > > atàeach moment daily àactivities after having experienced the > > stability and well being it brings toàones life. à> > à> > To All: > > à> > I paste here a couple of links in with the term of religion description > > given.àI never thought before in how many different ways this word is > > used. > > à> > à> > Different meanings of religion according to wiki: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=religion+meaning&fulltext=1 > > > > Religion > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion > > à> > Mayka > > à> > à> > > > > > --- On Tue, 29/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Is Zen a religion? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 29 March, 2011, 10:18 > > > > > > à> > > > > > > > M > > ayka, > > > > I agree with what your instructor taught. Your experiences are not based on > > faith. ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill; > > > Ãâà> > > ÃâàInstructor kept pointing out over and over that Buddhism was > > > not a set of beliefs but something to beÃâàexperienced first in > > > oneÃâàand then believe.ÃâàWe were > > > alsoÃâàtoldÃâànever talk about anything that we didn't first > > > experience in us. That Buddhism was not a religion of faith but something > > > based in living experience.Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > This was the statement from the Buddha I recall to be told: > > > "Do not believe in anything I say, first experience it and once you > > > experience it, then believe".Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > Mayka > > > > > > --- On Mon, 28/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Is Zen a religion? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 10:29 > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > Mayka, > > > > > > As a very broad statement I consider any structured set of beliefs based > > > on faith as a religion. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve; > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > I'm under the impresion that buddhism in some Countries is regarded as > > > > a religion and the way it's follow is as Buddha kind of "God" and other > > > > Contries is more a way of living.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàIt may be > > > > depending upo different schools and traditions Buddhism come > > > > from.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàI was educated to see buddhism as non > > > > religion.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàIn fact our instructor used to tell us > > > > never try to convert anyone into buddhism as it wasn't a religion but a > > > > way to freely choose to live or not.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàWe were also > > > > instructed to only talk about the dharma if someone asked a question or > > > > that person was interested.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > It will be interesting to know what you, Bill and others consider a > > > > religion. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Mayka > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 28/3/11, SteveW <eugnostos2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: SteveW <eugnostos2000@> > > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Is Zen a religion? > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 5:15 > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > JMJM, > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion: > > > > > > > > > > US PERCEPTIONS > > > > > - Buddhism is considered a religion - albeit a quirky one. > > > > > - Zen Buddhism is considered a sect of Buddhism. > > > > > > > > > > WORLD PERCEPTION > > > > > - Buddhism is considered a religion. > > > > > - Zen Buddhism is considered a sect of Buddhism - albeit a quiky one. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill! Oh, Buddhism itself can be properly regarded as a philosophy > > > > > rather than a religion. There is an interesting book by Stephen > > > > > Batchelor entitled Buddhism Without Beliefs. Mr. Batchelor received > > > > > Dharma transmission, if I am not mistaken, in the Korean form of Zen. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
