ED, IMO and IME, yes - Zen Buddhist meditation (zazen - shikantaza)is the same or very, very simialar to what you've indicated Ramana Maharshi wrote below.
Shikantaza is 'clear mind' (as I was taught) and is a complete expression of non-duality. Duality begins with the creation of self/other (the first appearance of subject/object) and then cascades on out to create all the other dualties: good/bad, beautiful/ugly, past/future, enlightened/not-enlightened, zen/not-zen, etc... I disagree with Ramana Maharshi's quote below in that this is defintely not 'self-enquiry' since the it does not involve the illusion of self (subject). It is instead a 'letting go' or 'dissolving' of the dualistic, subject/object illusion of self/other. Most of the rest of the quote (90-95%) could have been taken from a teisho (dharma talk) of any number of modern-day Zen Buddhist teacher. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > > > > Mike, Bill, Steve and All, > > In your judgment, is the perspective of Zen on meditation practice the > same as, similar to or different from that of Ramana Maharshi? > > --ED > > > > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > "From: "Be As You Are" > > Sri Ramana Maharshi taught that every conscious activity of the mind or > body, for example `I think', `I remember', 'I feel' `I am acting', [I am > mindful. ?] etc., revolves around the tacit assumption that there is an > individual `I' who is doing something, a common factor and mental > fiction termed the `I'-thought (a translation of Aham-Vritti, which > literally means `mental modification of `I'). > > He equated individuality with the mind and the mind with the `I'-thought > which is dependent upon identification with an object, and said that > after Self-realization there is no thinker of thoughts, no performer of > actions and no awareness of individual existence. > > When the thoughts arise, he said, the `I'-thought claims ownership of > them- `I think', `I believe', `I want', `I am acting'. > > In reality, there is no separate `I' that exists independently of the > objects that it is identifying with, rather, an incessant flow of > misidentifications based on an initial assumption that the `I' is > individual and associated with the bodily form. > > He considered this `I am the body' idea as the primary source of all > subsequent wrong identifications and its dissolution as the principal > aim of self-enquiry. > > Sri Ramana taught that since the individual `I'-thought cannot exist > without an object, if attention is focused on the subjective feeling of > `I' or `I am' with such intensity that the thoughts `I am this' or `I am > that' do not arise, then the individual `I' will be unable to connect > with objects. > > If this awareness of `I' is sustained, the individual `I' (the > `I'-thought) will disappear. In its place will be a direct experience of > the Self. This constant attention to the inner awareness of `I' or `I > am' is called self-enquiry (atma vichara). > > Sri Ramana Maharshi frequently recommended it as the most efficient and > direct way of discovering the unreality of the `I'-thought. > > He taught that the `I'-thought will finally disappear when the > perception of all objects, both physical and mental, cease and only > Self- awareness exists. > > This is not brought about by being aware of an `I', but only by BEING > the `I'. > > This stage of experiencing the subject rather than being aware of an > object is the culminating phase of self-enquiry. > > This important distinction is what distinguishes self-enquiry from most > other spiritual practices. > > It also explains why Sri Ramana Maharshi consistently maintained that > most other practices were ineffective. > > He often pointed out that traditional meditations and yoga practices > were predicated on the existence of a subject who meditates on an object > and he would usually add that such a relationship sustained the > `I'-thought instead of eliminating it. > > In his view such practices may effectively quieten the mind, and they > may even produce blissful experiences, but they will never culminate in > Self-realisation because the `I'-thought is not being isolated and seen > to have no real existence." > > > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > We just have to be careful with mindfulness - it's very much a > double-edged sword in that it can be the catalyst for awakening to > reality, but it can also make us think we've 'got it' when in fact it's > nothing but our ego taking a very subtle rest. > > > Also, we need to get past the way we think of mindfulness. In the > beginning we tend to find ourselves consciously employing it at specific > times. "Right, I've done the tidying up, taken a shower and washed the > dishes. Now I'm going to take the dog out and really focus on what I'm > doing, feel the wind on my face, not zone out and follow any thoughts > and really be here" All well and good. > > > But what we've also done there, by definition, is to separate > ourselves between not being mindfull and being mindful which in turn > also reinforces the sense of separateness from our intrinsic awareness > of Budhha. > > > In simple terms, there is an awareness that is unborn and undying > right now which in Vedanta is expressed as 'I Am'. That awareness is > right there with you when you're washing the dishes and putting out the > rubbish and is there prior to just when you think, "Now I'm going to > practice mindfulness" and it's there when you stop being mindful. > > > > Mike > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
