Gasho Could you tell us a little more about what you know about plants and animals?
Whatever you want, off the top of your head? best wishes zendervish --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > There is an obvious difference between plants and animals. Animals suffer and > experience pain. Plants do have automatic protective and response mechanisms > but no one would argue that they feel pain. That argument is used by evil > doers to justify killing and eating animals. > > Edgar > > > > On Jul 25, 2011, at 5:53 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > Your remarks echoe Bill's statement that a Buddhist monk can smoke, but he > > has to let others light up a cigarette for him. That is very elucidating. > > However, Gotama was very pragmatic. He was not a vegetarian in the sense > > that he ate out of almsfood anything edible. But he would refuse meat that > > was taken from animal especially killed to serve him. The other example is > > that he instructed his disciples to fill a pond with water to clean it, > > thereby killing a lot of insects in it. When asked his response was that > > the purpose of washing the pond was to clean it, not to kill the worms. The > > examples show that Gotama knew how to 'live' in this world, not just > > theorizing everything. If we go deeper, we can argue whether plants are > > sentient beings. Some say yes, because a tree would try to avoid, though in > > a very slow process, being 'killed' one way or the other. So we can't eat > > vegetables either. Thus have I heard. > > > > Anthony > > > > --- On Tue, 26/7/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Need help with the fear of death > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 26 July, 2011, 5:22 AM > > > > > > Well I'll let him speak for himself if he does but your explanation sounds > > like the old Buddhist cop out of letting someone else do your dirty work > > for you and take on the bad karma while you profit from their actions. It > > just doesn't wash. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > > >> > >> He is saying if a cook prepares him a meal and has killed the animal, he'd > >> eat it. > >> > >> He did not say what he would do as the cook. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> --Chris > >> chris@... > >> +1-301-270-6524 > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:42 AM, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Bill are you telling us you aren't a vegetarian? If so how do you justify > >> taking the lives of sentient creatures to eat? > >> > >> Edgar > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:38 PM, Bill! wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> DP, > >>> > >>> My take on this is: > >>> > >>> 'Right Action' is part of Buddhist dogma. So is vegatarianism. So would > >>> be any dietary restrictions. > >>> > >>> Zen practice is just eating what the cook prepares. > >>> > >>> ...Bill! > >>> > >>> --- In [email protected], "D P" <wookielifeday@> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I think I can see that. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Let me put it this way: > >>> > > >>> > I have OCD about contracting horrible diseases. Part of my response to > >>> > my OCD is to accept the fact that I may in fact be exposing myself to > >>> > these horrible diseases just through regular day-by-day activities. > >>> > > >>> > But in that case, what is Right Action? By accepting that I am > >>> > endangering myself just by living, am I abdicating my duty to Right > >>> > Action? > >>> > > >>> > PArt of my anxiety is also that certain products may or may not have > >>> > animal products. The OCD initial response is to check all labels for > >>> > animal products. But 1) that's impossible, and 2) that's feeding my OCD. > >>> > > >>> > But is it Right Action not to check? > >>> > > >>> > --- In [email protected], Mark Perew <mperew@> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > DP > >>> > > > >>> > > Living in the moment, mindfulness, is very different from living for > >>> > > the > >>> > > moment. Can you spot the difference? How might those be different in > >>> > > your > >>> > > practice? > >>> > > On Jul 21, 2011 1:16 PM, "D P" <wookielifeday@> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > I fear nothingness because I associate it with the western view of > >>> > > nihlism. I also am put off with the idea of living for the moment, > >>> > > because I > >>> > > associate it with a western hedonism that I find distasteful. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Yes, what happened before us is gone, but we have touchstones to > >>> > > > know that > >>> > > it did exist. And the past can certainly affect us now. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > But the "living right" is also scary because then my OCD kicks in > >>> > > > that I > >>> > > am somehow not doing it right! > >>> > > > > >>> > > > I want to forgive myself for mistakes, and accept things without > >>> > > > dwelling > >>> > > in depression. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> All this was gone before you were born. Do you fear that? Every > >>> > > >> moment of > >>> > > the past is now gone. Do you fear that? Yesterday and your yesterday > >>> > > self > >>> > > are now gone. Do you fear that? The previous second is now gone and > >>> > > your > >>> > > existence then with it. Do you fear that? No, of course not. These > >>> > > are all > >>> > > imaginary times that exist only in your mind as memories. Your future > >>> > > death > >>> > > does not exist except as an identical imagination in your mind. So > >>> > > why fear > >>> > > these imaginary moments after you won't be here that your mind makes > >>> > > up? > >>> > > They exist only in your fears, as thoughts and not in reality. The > >>> > > only > >>> > > reality is the present moment and you are here alive in it. And you > >>> > > can > >>> > > choose to infect this present moment with fear or to release it and > >>> > > directly > >>> > > experience total life and pure consciousness within it. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> Personal death is an illusion because it will never be > >>> > > >> experienced. Only > >>> > > life is ever experienced. Only life can be experienced. Death can > >>> > > never be > >>> > > experienced so there is nothing to worry about. Thus use the freedom > >>> > > you > >>> > > have to optimize your life in the present moment since your life in > >>> > > the > >>> > > present moment is all that exists and all that ever will exist. Thus > >>> > > you > >>> > > must purify your consciousness in the present moment by paying no > >>> > > attention > >>> > > to and not dwelling on your fear of death. That will maximize life > >>> > > which is > >>> > > what the fear of death is really about - not being present maximally > >>> > > and > >>> > > totally in the present which is all that exists, which is the only > >>> > > place > >>> > > life can and does exist. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> Worrying about death won't make any difference about whether you > >>> > > >> will die > >>> > > or not so it's a waste of time that diminishes your real life right > >>> > > now. > >>> > > It's also about bravery. Remember the samurai Zen ethic - the ultimate > >>> > > bravery is to recognize and accept the possibility of your death as > >>> > > ever > >>> > > present and all around you and everywhere and facing it squarely to > >>> > > live > >>> > > every moment totally in the moment. In spite of that recognition > >>> > > choose to > >>> > > live totally and completely in the moment! Live every moment as your > >>> > > last. > >>> > > Worrying about death and letting it drain the reality of your life is > >>> > > for > >>> > > wimps who are not truly alive. Worrying about death is not the Zen > >>> > > way... > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> Edgar > >>> > > >> http://EdgarLOwen.info > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:39 PM, D P wrote: > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > But this will all be gone. All of it. That's what I fear. And it > >>> > > >> > feels > >>> > > like a real fear. > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all > >>> > > >> > > you won't > >>> > > be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead > >>> > > before you > >>> > > were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of > >>> > > course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same > >>> > > thing > >>> > > exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at > >>> > > all. > >>> > > Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > And even if you are still worried about death the best answer > >>> > > >> > > to that > >>> > > is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and > >>> > > enjoy it > >>> > > and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death > >>> > > will > >>> > > never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > Edgar > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:50 PM, D P wrote: > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > Hi, > >>> > > >> > > > I am sorry hthat I haven't been on here more, but I do need > >>> > > >> > > > some > >>> > > help right now. > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > I just can't get over my fear of death. I know that in some > >>> > > >> > > > ways > >>> > > it's not really an issue in zen, but it still bothers me. I can't > >>> > > seem to > >>> > > get into the idea of living the moment. > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > Does anybody have any advice, koans, or books/essays to read? > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > ------------------------------------ > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read > >>> > > > or are > >>> > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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