Bill,
Siska -----Original Message----- From: "Bill!" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 10:32:42 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle Dried Shit on a Stick!!! --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: > > Anthony, > > I guess so. > > I've no idea how to describe anything beyond logic with words. > > Siska > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@... > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:18:05 > To: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > Siska, >  > Your reasoning makes sense logically. However, that statement is more complicated than you think (and I think), I believe. >  > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@... siska_cen@... wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... siska_cen@... > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 6:14 PM > > >  > > > > Anthony, > > I'm not sure if I understand, the saying just feels more like it. But perhaps it's something like this: > > When you are not different from others, I don't think it matters. Also, if I don't exist, I don't need to be saved. > > Siska > > > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@... > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:59:34 +0800 (SGT) > To: [email protected] > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > >  > > > > > > > Siska, >  > My teacher says 'your own enlightenment is equal to "others" being saved'. Not you being saved. Do you understand? >  > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@... siska_cen@... wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... siska_cen@... > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 5:33 PM > > >  > > Hi Anthony, > > > One of my teachers say that you own enlightenment is the same as 'saving all sentient beings' > > If being enlightened is equated as being saved, then I'm totally alright with this. Is this what JM was saying? > > Siska > > > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@... > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:19:42 +0800 (SGT) > To: [email protected] > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > >  > > > > > > > Siska, >  > In many zendos, you take a vow to 'save all sentient beings' while practicing zazen. One of my teachers say that you own enlightenment is the same as 'saving all sentient beings'. I still don't understand his word even now. >  > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@... siska_cen@... wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... siska_cen@... > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 4:49 PM > > >  > > Hi JM, All, > > Is this a zen premise ~ separating oneself from others and then work on enlightening the 'self' and others? > > Or is it another conventional speaking limitation? > > It does not 'feel' right to me. > > Siska > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 10:08:50 -0700 > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > >  > > Good morning Sensei, > > Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am just a practitioner of Chan and not a master. A master in our school means someone who is enlightened and has received "Buddha Heart Imprint", while I have neither. Since Zen does recognize the Mahayana practice, then please let me share some of the discussions we had recently in our school.... > > As we know, Hinayana is often called the Small Vehicle and Mahayana is the Great Vehicle. And in China, the Chan is called the Supreme Vehicle. It means that Chan could free everyone. > > It is true, when others are enlightened, we are enlightened. The danger of this realization is the rationalization that we only need to work on ourselves. If so, then we are only practicing Hinayana. We did not "do" the circular track of Chan. > > The Mahayana practice is a practice, only when we leave our lotus and step into the mud, could we than detach ourselves from the limitation of our practice and our dharma. In other words, as we focus on the difficulty in freeing others, could we then realize how limited we are in wisdom and energy in resolving their karmic hindrance. Only then we could be motivated to continuously surpassing our habitual practice, form and formless. In turn to realize that "Dharma is not dharma. No dharma is dharma." > > Then we would know dharma is in every encounter. It is up to us to be one with it. Only then we are liberated from the rationalization of our mind and awaken to the fact that the One of Chan is the ALL. This realization occurs when we journey midway into the freeing of each one, as a Supreme Vehicle. > > Too often we quit by rationalizing to ourselves that this practice is not for everyone. Or the time is not right, or whatever excuses we place upon our practice. If so, we have trapped ourselves into believing that our current practice is the only path. The practice of Supreme Vehicle is every practice in each moment, in each encounter, without self, without other, without dharma, without form, without notion, etc. > > To free all beings is not to impose "our" practice upon them, but rather let them awaken from within. The only way we could accomplish that is to speak in their language in their mindset and help them to resolve whatever there needs to be resolve in resources, mindset or life force. In other words, we needed to be them and undertake their karma. Thus the mud is the lotus and lotus is the mud and they both grow in tandem. > > To phrase it in beautiful labels, Mahayana is the journey for Bodhisattva, Supreme Vehicle is the journey for Buddha, who is the one and all and us and everyone. > > Thank you all for your attention, > JMJM > Head Teacher > Order Of Chan > Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > http://www.chan-meditation.org > Chan in everyday life... > http://www.chanliving.org > To be enlightened in this life... > http://www.heartchan.org > To save our world... > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > On 9/1/2011 9:49 PM, Harvey Daiho Hilbert wrote: >  > > > >  >  > With palms together, > Good Evening Everyone, >  > On the Zen Living list, Ch’an Master Jue Miao Jing Ming , asked me a question the other day. “Dear Sensei, Do you consider Zen a Mahayana practice? If so, what does Mahayana actually do?†>  > While Zen is within the Mahayana tradition, it is not a Mahayana practice as I understand it. Student Rev. Shoji and I were discussing this question today and Rev. Shoji brought up an interesting distinction. He argued that Mahayana Buddhists aim at the Bodhisattva ideal to free all beings before they, themselves, enter nirvana. He points out that from a Zen point of view, self and other are one, therefore there is no one, but oneself, to free. >  > Zen Master Seung Sahn argues in his Compass, that  both Theravadan and Mahayane traditions have “roads,† but that Zen has not only no road, but no map, as well. The practice is practice realization as one. Path and destination are not two. >  > These beg the question, however, “What does Mahayana actually do?†>  > Mahayana does nothing. Mahayana is just a word. And we can see from the question that such things as words and concepts can create a hindrance. We could ask a better question, “What is Mahayana practice and what does it do?†The aim of the practice is to free beings, but how? >  > Again, Master Sahn offers the Six Paramitas as “practice guides.â€Â They are rather like the manifest value in the nexus between idea and behavior, rather like the term “Quality†as used in Pirsig’s “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.† A Mahayana practitioner practices to make manifest the six aspects of our true nature in the hope that to do so will free suffering beings. >  > A Zen practitioner, however realizes practice and life are one, that everything is already free, perfect as it is, but that we  jail ourselves with our thoughts. A Zen practitioner notices and ceases all grasping: no attachment to ideas, desires, things, feelings, etc.   > A Zen practitioner is free and easy in the everyday world. His mind is free and his heart limitless. He recognizes all beings are likewise like this. >  > Be well. > > Rev. Daiho Hilbert, abbot > OCMZ >
