Hi Bill, I agree....
Siska -----Original Message----- From: "Bill!" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:34:02 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle Siska, That response if a fine one too, but it doesn't use any words - even better! --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: > > Bill, > > > > Siska > -----Original Message----- > From: "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 10:32:42 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > > Dried Shit on a Stick!!! > > > > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > Anthony, > > > > I guess so. > > > > I've no idea how to describe anything beyond logic with words. > > > > Siska > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@ > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:18:05 > > To: [email protected] > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > > > Siska, > >  > > Your reasoning makes sense logically. However, that statement is more > complicated than you think (and I think), I believe. > >  > > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@ siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > > > From: siska_cen@ siska_cen@ > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 6:14 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Anthony, > > > > I'm not sure if I understand, the saying just feels more like it. But > perhaps it's something like this: > > > > When you are not different from others, I don't think it matters. > Also, if I don't exist, I don't need to be saved. > > > > Siska > > > > > > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@ > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:59:34 +0800 (SGT) > > To: [email protected] > > ReplyTo: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Siska, > >  > > My teacher says 'your own enlightenment is equal to "others" being > saved'. Not you being saved. Do you understand? > >  > > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@ siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > > > From: siska_cen@ siska_cen@ > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 5:33 PM > > > > > >  > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > > One of my teachers say that you own enlightenment is the same as > 'saving all sentient beings' > > > > If being enlightened is equated as being saved, then I'm totally > alright with this. Is this what JM was saying? > > > > Siska > > > > > > From: Anthony Wu wuasg@ > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:19:42 +0800 (SGT) > > To: [email protected] > > ReplyTo: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Siska, > >  > > In many zendos, you take a vow to 'save all sentient beings' while > practicing zazen. One of my teachers say that you own enlightenment is > the same as 'saving all sentient beings'. I still don't understand his > word even now. > >  > > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 4/9/11, siska_cen@ siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > > > From: siska_cen@ siska_cen@ > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 4 September, 2011, 4:49 PM > > > > > >  > > > > Hi JM, All, > > > > Is this a zen premise ~ separating oneself from others and then work > on enlightening the 'self' and others? > > > > Or is it another conventional speaking limitation? > > > > It does not 'feel' right to me. > > > > Siska > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@ > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 10:08:50 -0700 > > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected] > > ReplyTo: [email protected] > > Subject: [Zen] Supreme Vehicle > > > >  > > > > Good morning Sensei, > > > > Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am just a > practitioner of Chan and not a master. A master in our school means > someone who is enlightened and has received "Buddha Heart Imprint", > while I have neither. Since Zen does recognize the Mahayana > practice, then please let me share some of the discussions we had > recently in our school.... > > > > As we know, Hinayana is often called the Small Vehicle and Mahayana is > the Great Vehicle. And in China, the Chan is called the Supreme > Vehicle. It means that Chan could free everyone. > > > > It is true, when others are enlightened, we are enlightened. The > danger of this realization is the rationalization that we only need to > work on ourselves. If so, then we are only practicing Hinayana. > We did not "do" the circular track of Chan. > > > > The Mahayana practice is a practice, only when we leave our lotus and > step into the mud, could we than detach ourselves from the limitation of > our practice and our dharma. In other words, as we focus on the > difficulty in freeing others, could we then realize how limited we are > in wisdom and energy in resolving their karmic hindrance. Only then we > could be motivated to continuously surpassing our habitual practice, > form and formless. In turn to realize that "Dharma is not dharma. No > dharma is dharma." > > > > Then we would know dharma is in every encounter. It is up to us > to be one with it. Only then we are liberated from the > rationalization of our mind and awaken to the fact that the One of Chan > is the ALL. This realization occurs when we journey midway into the > freeing of each one, as a Supreme Vehicle. > > > > Too often we quit by rationalizing to ourselves that this practice is > not for everyone. Or the time is not right, or whatever excuses we > place upon our practice. If so, we have trapped ourselves into > believing that our current practice is the only path. The practice > of Supreme Vehicle is every practice in each moment, in each encounter, > without self, without other, without dharma, without form, without > notion, etc. > > > > To free all beings is not to impose "our" practice upon them, but > rather let them awaken from within. The only way we could > accomplish that is to speak in their language in their mindset and help > them to resolve whatever there needs to be resolve in resources, mindset > or life force. In other words, we needed to be them and undertake > their karma. Thus the mud is the lotus and lotus is the mud and they > both grow in tandem. > > > > To phrase it in beautiful labels, Mahayana is the journey for > Bodhisattva, Supreme Vehicle is the journey for Buddha, who is the one > and all and us and everyone. > > > > Thank you all for your attention, > > JMJM > > Head Teacher > > Order Of Chan > > Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > > http://www.chan-meditation.org > > Chan in everyday life... > > http://www.chanliving.org > > To be enlightened in this life... > > http://www.heartchan.org > > To save our world... > > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > > > On 9/1/2011 9:49 PM, Harvey Daiho Hilbert wrote: > >  > > > > > > > >  > >  > > With palms together, > > Good Evening Everyone, > >  > > On the Zen Living list, Ch’an Master Jue Miao Jing Ming , asked > me a question the other day. â€Å"Dear Sensei, Do you consider Zen a > Mahayana practice? If so, what does Mahayana actually do?†> >  > > While Zen is within the Mahayana tradition, it is not a Mahayana > practice as I understand it. Student Rev. Shoji and I were > discussing this question today and Rev. Shoji brought up an interesting > distinction. He argued that Mahayana Buddhists aim at the > Bodhisattva ideal to free all beings before they, themselves, enter > nirvana. He points out that from a Zen point of view, self and > other are one, therefore there is no one, but oneself, to free. > >  > > Zen Master Seung Sahn argues in his Compass, that  both Theravadan > and Mahayane traditions have â€Å"roads,†Â but that Zen > has not only no road, but no map, as well. The practice is practice > realization as one. Path and destination are not two. > >  > > These beg the question, however, â€Å"What does Mahayana actually > do?†> >  > > Mahayana does nothing. Mahayana is just a word. And we can > see from the question that such things as words and concepts can create > a hindrance. We could ask a better question, â€Å"What is > Mahayana practice and what does it do?†The aim of the practice > is to free beings, but how? > >  > > Again, Master Sahn offers the Six Paramitas as â€Å"practice > guides.â€Â They are rather like the manifest value in the nexus > between idea and behavior, rather like the term â€Å"Quality†> as used in Pirsig’s â€Å"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle > Maintenance.†Â A Mahayana practitioner practices to make > manifest the six aspects of our true nature in the hope that to do so > will free suffering beings. > >  > > A Zen practitioner, however realizes practice and life are one, that > everything is already free, perfect as it is, but that we  jail > ourselves with our thoughts. A Zen practitioner notices and ceases > all grasping: no attachment to ideas, desires, things, feelings, etc. >   > > A Zen practitioner is free and easy in the everyday world. His > mind is free and his heart limitless. He recognizes all beings are > likewise like this. > >  > > Be well. > > > > Rev. Daiho Hilbert, abbot > > OCMZ > > >
