Joe, You pondered... > I wonder about the case of someone who takes the whole Christian/Jewish story > as metaphor. Can such a person be a good Christian? Or, does *everyone* > take the Christian story as metaphor?
I certainly take the story of Jesus' life a mostly metaphor, just as I take the story of Siddhartha Gautama's life. These are some of the reasons I don't identify myself as Christian or Buddhist. I think a person who takes such stories as metaphors can appear to be a 'good' Christian or Buddhist, and they might indeed consider themselves as such. However I believe the clergy of these religions would not think that, and neither would the vast majority of the members of these religions. No, not EVERYONE takes these stories as metaphors. It is my belief that the vast majority of people identifying themselves with these religions believe every detail of these stories is true. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > > It would be like being a Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son of > > God. > > You raise a point that's long been *very* interesting to me. > > I wonder about the case of someone who takes the whole Christian/Jewish story > as metaphor. Can such a person be a good Christian? Or, does *everyone* > take the Christian story as metaphor? > > I suppose that such a person will -- or can -- be good, in all ways. And I > suspect that such a person believes that the real story, the true picture of > reality in its depth and heights, is not and cannot be encapsulated in any > story, person, historical event, or even metaphor, nor via any conceivable > thread of reasoning, nor science or philosophy. This leaves the picture open > to appreciation as a "mystery", which is a pretty good state of affairs, I > think. > > The metaphor 'just' gives a structure by which to approach the reality, > because there's no other way to preserve or make available the lived > tradition, other than to encapsulate it, *SOMEHOW*, for transmission to each > generation. That's a big "just"! In other words, the metaphor serves as a > vehicle for transmission of certain clues and cues for the practitioner, > which themselves serve as a Yoga or a ladder for the practitioner. > > I like to think that the truest Christians -- the Christians most intimate > with Christian truths -- are the ones who accept the tradition as metaphor. > > But I believe this is heresy in my (previous) Church! > > Yet, it may simply be "Secret". For example: the tradition is taught as > literal truth, but practitioners must simply come to their own understanding > of it, as metaphor, a metaphor for them which impinges on the reality of life > and opens windows upon Human nature and relationships, and upon all of > Nature. No one tells you that you must do this. And this is, therefore, the > only way that such implausible stories can actually be useful to a person, > spiritually and intellectually: one builds one's life and behavior in the > light of the metaphor, and in appreciation of the metaphor. The tradition > gracefully allows one to do this. It only forces down one's throat the > implausible literal stories, and allows you to do the real work of > understanding and incorporation after you find that you must vomit them up. > It becomes *entirely* personal! What better religion than that, especially > if you share it with others. While keeping the secret of the metaphoric > nature of the teachings, that is; wink-wink. > > Well, simple notions, still in a puppy-stage, here, and left that way for > decades, but re-visited occasionally. > > You may also gather a hint of the state and extent of pollution of my > "Christianity" by my Zen practice, and experience. > > I've heard other folks express that they had first to become a good Zen > Buddhist practitioner before they could ever have become a good Christian. > > Any, err-r, thoughts? ;-) > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > I'm mostly interested in how someone puts what they call 'zen' into > > practice than how they acquired it. Of course in this medium the only > > evidence we see is written communication - a very limited medium for > > demonstrating Buddha Nature. > > > > But I do agree with you that for me zazen (zen meditation) is a cornerstone > > of all zen teachings. I can't conceive of anyone practicing zen and > > excluding zazen - but I guess it's possible. It would be like being a > > Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son of God. You could call > > yourself a Christian and could in fact be a very good and upright person, > > but I don't think the majority of your fellow-parishioners would accept you > > as one of them. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
