Joe and Salik,

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you but 'mystical' does NOT mean "direct, 
unmitigated experience".  It is in fact just the opposite of that.  It is a 
mistaken belief that some illusory thoughts or feelings you've had were a real 
experience.

Here is the definition of 'mystical' from Merriam-Webster Online:

a : having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent to the 
senses nor obvious to the intelligence <the mystical food of the sacrament>
b : involving or having the nature of an individual's direct subjective 
communion with God or ultimate reality <the mystical experience of the Inner 
Light>

Neither 'spiritual' or 'mystical' have any place in zen practice, except as 
examples of illusions.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Salik,
> 
> Mystical just means by direct, unmitigated, experience.
> 
> It is not faith (nor ratiocination, nor speculation, nor Metaphysics).
> 
> I think the best modern literature about Mysticism was written 108 years ago, 
> the number of beads on a Buddhist mala.  By Evelyn Underhill; William James; 
> and Richard Bucke.
> 
> --Joe
> 
> PS  Kim's title is a brilliant one.
> 
> > "salik888" <novelidea8@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill
> > 
> > The "subject line" refers to the book
> > 
> > Ehei Dogen, Mystical Realist, Hee-Jin Kim
> > 
> > Nevertheless, I would agree with you though, so how about that one! . . . 
> > Mystical is a word in our time that denotes something special . . . usually 
> > it has something to do with "spiritual but not religious." Or apologetics 
> > for certain Religions. 
> > 
> > Like the word esoteric . . . 
> > 
> > Enlightenment . . . how about that booby trap word?
> > 
> > I am more from the school of "get your ass over there and sit down . . ." 
> > Or -- "don't!"
> > 
> > Samey Samey . . . 
> > 
> > Anyway, I am not big on the word myself . . . it has worn out its 
> > usefulness, if it had any to begin with.
>



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