[Bug 2066457] Re: Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular accented vowels does not work in Italian keyboard
I don't use it much but since corradoventu went to the trouble it affects me as well. "PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu Oracular Oriole (development branch)" NAME="Ubuntu" VERSION_ID="24.10" VERSION="24.10 (Oracular Oriole)" VERSION_CODENAME=oracular ID=ubuntu ID_LIKE=debian HOME_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/; SUPPORT_URL="https://help.ubuntu.com/; BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/; PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy; UBUNTU_CODENAME=oracular LOGO=ubuntu-logo " -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2066457 Title: Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular accented vowels does not work in Italian keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig/+bug/2066457/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2064869] Re: systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service
This will disable it for the current session: **" rfkill list 0: ideapad_wlan: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no 1: ideapad_bluetooth: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 2: hci0: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 3: hci1: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 4: phy0: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no ┌───> │~ └─> rfkill block 1 2 (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:57:44.532: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:57:44.633: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID " A check with rfkill *" rfkill list all 0: ideapad_wlan: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no 1: ideapad_bluetooth: Bluetooth Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no 2: hci0: Bluetooth Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no 3: hci1: Bluetooth Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no 4: phy0: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: yes Hard blocked: no "* -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2064869 Title: systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/2064869/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2064869] Re: systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service
I forgot this that "might" help. **" systemctl stop bluetooth.service ┌───> │~ └─> (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:15.181: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:16.283: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:16.385: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:16.888: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:18.042: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:18.243: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:18.444: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID (wrapper-2.0:231189): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: 09:49:18.545: Unable to replace properties on 0: Error getting properties for ID ┌───> │~ └─> systemctl status bluetooth ● bluetooth.service - Bluetooth service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled; preset> Active: active (running) since Sun 2024-05-05 09:49:15 MDT; 13s ago Docs: man:bluetoothd(8) Main PID: 247580 (bluetoothd) Status: "Running" Tasks: 1 (limit: 16490) Memory: 1.1M (peak: 1.3M) CPU: 45ms CGroup: /system.slice/bluetooth.service └─247580 /usr/libexec/bluetooth/bluetoothd May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 09:49:15 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[247580]: Failed to add UUID: Faile" -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2064869 Title: systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/2064869/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2064869] [NEW] systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service
Public bug reported: systemd stop bluetooth.service no longer stops bluetooth. And systemd disable bluetooth.service, restarts after reboot "systemctl status bluetooth ● bluetooth.service - Bluetooth service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled; preset> Active: active (running) since Sun 2024-05-05 08:20:37 MDT; 1h 22min ago Docs: man:bluetoothd(8) Main PID: 140617 (bluetoothd) Status: "Running" Tasks: 1 (limit: 16490) Memory: 1.6M (peak: 1.9M) CPU: 57ms CGroup: /system.slice/bluetooth.service └─140617 /usr/libexec/bluetooth/bluetoothd May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Endpoint registered: sender> May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > May 05 08:20:37 me-Legion-5-zfs bluetoothd[140617]: Failed to add UUID: Failed > lines 1-22/22 (END) " If you need more just ask. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: systemd 255.4-1ubuntu8 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.8.0-31.31-generic 6.8.1 Uname: Linux 6.8.0-31-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.28.1-0ubuntu2 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sun May 5 09:38:14 2024 InstallationDate: Installed on 2024-04-19 (16 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 LTS "Noble Numbat" - Beta amd64 (20240419) MachineType: LENOVO 82JW ProcKernelCmdLine: BOOT_IMAGE=/BOOT/ubuntu_ntiqi9@/vmlinuz-6.8.0-31-generic root=ZFS=rpool/ROOT/ubuntu_ntiqi9 ro SourcePackage: systemd UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) dmi.bios.date: 12/07/2023 dmi.bios.release: 1.36 dmi.bios.vendor: LENOVO dmi.bios.version: HHCN36WW dmi.board.asset.tag: NO Asset Tag dmi.board.name: LNVNB161216 dmi.board.vendor: LENOVO dmi.board.version: SDK0T76465 WIN dmi.chassis.asset.tag: NO Asset Tag dmi.chassis.type: 10 dmi.chassis.vendor: LENOVO dmi.chassis.version: Legion 5 15ACH6 dmi.ec.firmware.release: 1.36 dmi.modalias: dmi:bvnLENOVO:bvrHHCN36WW:bd12/07/2023:br1.36:efr1.36:svnLENOVO:pn82JW:pvrLegion515ACH6:rvnLENOVO:rnLNVNB161216:rvrSDK0T76465WIN:cvnLENOVO:ct10:cvrLegion515ACH6:skuLENOVO_MT_82JW_BU_idea_FM_Legion515ACH6: dmi.product.family: Legion 5 15ACH6 dmi.product.name: 82JW dmi.product.sku: LENOVO_MT_82JW_BU_idea_FM_Legion 5 15ACH6 dmi.product.version: Legion 5 15ACH6 dmi.sys.vendor: LENOVO ** Affects: systemd (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Tags: amd64 apport-bug noble -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2064869 Title: systemd bluetooth not honoring stop service To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/2064869/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 2060398] [NEW] xfsettingsd crashed with SIGTRAP in g_log_writer_default()
*** This bug is a security vulnerability *** Public security bug reported: This is first boot after install on a KVM current iso dated today. ProblemType: Crash DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: xfce4-settings 4.18.4-0ubuntu3 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.8.0-22.22-generic 6.8.1 Uname: Linux 6.8.0-22-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: zfs ApportVersion: 2.28.0-0ubuntu1 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sun Apr 7 12:27:36 2024 ExecutablePath: /usr/bin/xfsettingsd InstallationDate: Installed on 2024-04-07 (0 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 LTS "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20240407.2) ProcCmdline: xfsettingsd --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 2837f7668-f84c-4f47-91fe-5527e1d866ed ProcEnviron: LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en PATH=(custom, no user) SHELL=/bin/bash XDG_RUNTIME_DIR= Signal: 5 SignalName: SIGTRAP SourcePackage: xfce4-settings StacktraceTop: g_log_writer_default () from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0 g_log_structured_array () from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0 g_log_structured_standard () from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0 ?? () __libc_start_call_main (main=main@entry=0x5ae474824800, argc=argc@entry=5, argv=argv@entry=0x7ffd992f56a8) at ../sysdeps/nptl/libc_start_call_main.h:58 Title: xfsettingsd crashed with SIGTRAP in g_log_writer_default() UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) UserGroups: adm cdrom dip lpadmin plugdev sudo users separator: ** Affects: xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Tags: amd64 apport-crash need-amd64-retrace noble ** Information type changed from Private to Public Security -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2060398 Title: xfsettingsd crashed with SIGTRAP in g_log_writer_default() To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/2060398/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 2046844 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046844 Late for the party, But>>> Verified on KVM install "Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/apparmor-dev-ubuntu-unprivileged-userns-noble.sources 1: deb https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/apparmor-dev/unprivileged-userns/ubuntu/ noble main " And "sudo aa-status |grep Surfshark* /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2399) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2636) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2637) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2668) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/chrome_crashpad_handler (2720) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2770) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2777) surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark (2793) surfshark " -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2051999] Re: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool.
Mike and I have posted Disclaimers to the users on Jammy **Warning of potential breakage with the added PPA Mike has also included some very straight forward work-around's with The *Warning* to users on 22.04 until the fix is pushed to the users. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2051999 Title: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool. Status in grub2 package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in grub2-unsigned package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: There is an upstream Bug with Grub where if you create snapshots of bpool, it results in a non-booting System. The problem was found to be an upstream Bug with Grub2: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?64297 Multiple Ubuntu 22.04.3 Users Affected: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494397=zfs+grub+bug https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494957 Brought up as an issue at OpenZFS: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873 If you look at this comment (https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873#issuecomment-1892911836), if was found the Savanaugh at GNU released a fix for it in Grub2 2.12, here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/log/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c Ubuntu Jammy 22.04.3 is Grub2 2.06. We need to backported this patch to Grub2 2.06 so that Users are not caught of in this bug for or currently supported LTS Release. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: grub-efi-amd64 2.06-2ubuntu14.4 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.2.0-39.40~22.04.1-generic 6.2.16 Uname: Linux 6.2.0-39-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: zfs zunicode zavl icp zcommon znvpair nvidia_modeset nvidia ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.5 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: GNOME Date: Thu Feb 1 16:40:28 2024 InstallationDate: Installed on 2021-09-23 (861 days ago) InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS "Focal Fossa" - Release amd64 (20210819) SourcePackage: grub2-unsigned UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-08-17 (533 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2051999/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2051999] Re: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool.
It worked: The grub issue with a PPA solved it for NNoble Code: apt policy grub-common grub-common: Installed: 2.12-1ubuntu1~ppa1 Candidate: 2.12-1ubuntu1~ppa1 Version table: *** 2.12-1ubuntu1~ppa1 500 500 https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/ubuntu-uefi-team/build/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 2.12~rc1-12ubuntu4 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages zfs list -r -t snapshot -o name,creation bpool NAME CREATION bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@autozsys_bk6cdb Fri Feb 2 10:41 2024 bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@autozsys_sin22d Sat Feb 3 17:22 2024 bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@autozsys_41kebx Sat Feb 3 17:23 2024 bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@autozsys_25r5is Sun Feb 4 13:55 2024 bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@autozsys_1n6o7d Sun Feb 4 14:07 2024 bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@2-4-2024test Sun Feb 4 14:09 2024 As seen by the bottom "bpool/BOOT/ubuntu_l7y21m@2-4-2024test Sun Feb 4 14:09 2024" -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2051999 Title: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool. Status in grub2 package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in grub2-unsigned package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: There is an upstream Bug with Grub where if you create snapshots of bpool, it results in a non-booting System. The problem was found to be an upstream Bug with Grub2: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?64297 Multiple Ubuntu 22.04.3 Users Affected: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494397=zfs+grub+bug https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494957 Brought up as an issue at OpenZFS: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873 If you look at this comment (https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873#issuecomment-1892911836), if was found the Savanaugh at GNU released a fix for it in Grub2 2.12, here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/log/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c Ubuntu Jammy 22.04.3 is Grub2 2.06. We need to backported this patch to Grub2 2.06 so that Users are not caught of in this bug for or currently supported LTS Release. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: grub-efi-amd64 2.06-2ubuntu14.4 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.2.0-39.40~22.04.1-generic 6.2.16 Uname: Linux 6.2.0-39-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: zfs zunicode zavl icp zcommon znvpair nvidia_modeset nvidia ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.5 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: GNOME Date: Thu Feb 1 16:40:28 2024 InstallationDate: Installed on 2021-09-23 (861 days ago) InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS "Focal Fossa" - Release amd64 (20210819) SourcePackage: grub2-unsigned UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-08-17 (533 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2051999/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2051999] Re: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool.
I've added the PPA for Noble just now, will report after a manual bpool snapshot **The following packages will be upgraded: automake autopoint ayatana-indicator-common bind9-dnsutils bind9-host bind9-libs cpio gcc-14-base gcc-14-base:i386 gettext gettext-base grub-common grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub-pc grub-pc-bin grub2-common language-pack-gnome-en libasan8 libatomic1 libatomic1:i386 libcc1-0 libgcc-s1 libgcc-s1:i386 libgfortran5 libgnutls30 libgomp1 libhwasan0 libitm1 liblsan0 libneon27 libp11-kit0 libpcap0.8 libquadmath0 libstdc++6 libstdc++6:i386 libtsan2 libubsan1 linux-firmware openssh-client p11-kit p11-kit-modules python3-mako ufw 44 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2051999 Title: Grub2 2.06 has upstream bug that results in Non-booting with ZFS after snapshot of bpool. Status in grub2 package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in grub2-unsigned package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: There is an upstream Bug with Grub where if you create snapshots of bpool, it results in a non-booting System. The problem was found to be an upstream Bug with Grub2: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?64297 Multiple Ubuntu 22.04.3 Users Affected: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494397=zfs+grub+bug https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2494957 Brought up as an issue at OpenZFS: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873 If you look at this comment (https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873#issuecomment-1892911836), if was found the Savanaugh at GNU released a fix for it in Grub2 2.12, here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/log/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfs.c Ubuntu Jammy 22.04.3 is Grub2 2.06. We need to backported this patch to Grub2 2.06 so that Users are not caught of in this bug for or currently supported LTS Release. ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: grub-efi-amd64 2.06-2ubuntu14.4 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.2.0-39.40~22.04.1-generic 6.2.16 Uname: Linux 6.2.0-39-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: zfs zunicode zavl icp zcommon znvpair nvidia_modeset nvidia ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.5 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: GNOME Date: Thu Feb 1 16:40:28 2024 InstallationDate: Installed on 2021-09-23 (861 days ago) InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS "Focal Fossa" - Release amd64 (20210819) SourcePackage: grub2-unsigned UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-08-17 (533 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/2051999/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
@jjohansen that link come in pretty handy. I will link to it when helping others -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Sure thing
nano /etc/apparmor.d/surfshark
*abi ,
include
profile surfshark /opt/Surfshark/surfshark flags=(unconfined) {
userns,
# Site-specific additions and overrides. See local/README for details.
include if exists
}
Reload apparmor and presto.
Reboots are golden
--
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624
Title:
apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu:
New
Bug description:
with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Breaks my VPN
*surfshark
[33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . :
Permission denied (13)
Trace/breakpoint trap
It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal.
I removed apparmor for proof
*apt policy apparmor
apparmor:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Version table:
4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500
500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages
Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark
support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything
wrong on their end.
So far it points to apparmor
ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04
Package: apparmor (not installed)
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3
Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs
ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6
Architecture: amd64
CasperMD5CheckResult: pass
CurrentDesktop: XFCE
Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023
InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127)
SourcePackage: apparmor
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)
modified.conffile..etc.default.apport:
# set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it
# you can temporarily override this with
# sudo service apport start force_start=1
enabled=0
mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263
To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Bingo, it worked, and this is new but spot on *"programs using userns (often used for sandboxing) now _must have_ an AppArmor profile." **Thanks cboltz :-) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
sudo aa-status |grep surfshark surfshark will reboot to see -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Here *└─> sudo dmesg | grep DENIED [sudo] password for me: ┌───> │~ └─> -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
journalctl -b -1 -g DENIED --no-pager -- No entries -- ┌───> │~ └─> journalctl -b -1 -g ALLOWED --no-pager -- No entries -- -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
After reboot with apparmor active * systemctl status surfsharkd2.service ● surfsharkd2.service - Surfshark Daemon2 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/surfsharkd2.service; enabled; preset: enabled) Active: active (running) since Sat 2023-12-16 13:30:24 MST; 1min 12s ago Main PID: 1742 (surfsharkd2.js) Tasks: 12 (limit: 18861) Memory: 14.0M CPU: 156ms CGroup: /system.slice/surfsharkd2.service └─1742 /usr/bin/gjs /opt/Surfshark/resources/dist/resources/surfsharkd2.js Dec 16 13:30:24 me-Legion-5-zfs systemd[1]: Started surfsharkd2.service - Surfshark Daem> ┌───> │~ └─> surfshark [5927:1216/133159.791330:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap With --no-sandbox *surfshark --no-sandbox [6392:1216/133222.506292:ERROR:object_proxy.cc(590)] Failed to call method: org.freedesktop.portal.Settings.Read: object_path= /org/freedesktop/portal/desktop: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface “org.freedesktop.portal.Settings” on object at path /org/freedesktop/portal/desktop -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
aa-status
apparmor module is loaded.
100 profiles are loaded.
31 profiles are in enforce mode.
/usr/bin/man
/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-client.action
/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-helper
/usr/lib/connman/scripts/dhclient-script
/usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf
/usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-guest-session
/usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-guest-session//chromium
/usr/sbin/cups-browsed
/usr/sbin/cupsd
/usr/sbin/cupsd//third_party
/{,usr/}sbin/dhclient
firefox
firefox//browser_java
firefox//browser_openjdk
firefox//lsb_release
firefox//sanitized_helper
firejail-default
libreoffice-senddoc
libreoffice-soffice//gpg
libreoffice-xpdfimport
libvirtd
libvirtd//qemu_bridge_helper
lsb_release
man_filter
man_groff
nvidia_modprobe
nvidia_modprobe//kmod
rsyslogd
swtpm
tcpdump
virt-aa-helper
2 profiles are in complain mode.
libreoffice-oosplash
libreoffice-soffice
0 profiles are in prompt mode.
0 profiles are in kill mode.
67 profiles are in unconfined mode.
/bin/toybox
/opt/brave.com/brave/brave
/opt/google/chrome/chrome
/opt/microsoft/msedge/msedge
/opt/vivaldi/vivaldi-bin
/usr/bin/buildah
/usr/bin/busybox
/usr/bin/cam
/usr/bin/ch-checkns
/usr/bin/ch-run
/usr/bin/crun
/usr/bin/flatpak
/usr/bin/ipa_verify
/usr/bin/lc-compliance
/usr/bin/libcamerify
/usr/bin/lxc-attach
/usr/bin/lxc-create
/usr/bin/lxc-destroy
/usr/bin/lxc-execute
/usr/bin/lxc-stop
/usr/bin/lxc-unshare
/usr/bin/lxc-usernsexec
/usr/bin/mmdebstrap
/usr/bin/podman
/usr/bin/qcam
/usr/bin/rootlesskit
/usr/bin/rpm
/usr/bin/sbuild
/usr/bin/sbuild-abort
/usr/bin/sbuild-apt
/usr/bin/sbuild-checkpackages
/usr/bin/sbuild-clean
/usr/bin/sbuild-createchroot
/usr/bin/sbuild-distupgrade
/usr/bin/sbuild-hold
/usr/bin/sbuild-shell
/usr/bin/sbuild-unhold
/usr/bin/sbuild-update
/usr/bin/sbuild-upgrade
/usr/bin/slirp4netns
/usr/bin/stress-ng
/usr/bin/thunderbird
/usr/bin/trinity
/usr/bin/tup
/usr/bin/userbindmount
/usr/bin/uwsgi-core
/usr/bin/vdens
/usr/bin/vpnns
/usr/lib/*-linux-gnu*/qt5/libexec/QtWebEngineProcess
/usr/lib/qt6/libexec/QtWebEngineProcess
/usr/libexec/*-linux-gnu*/bazel/linux-sandbox
/usr/libexec/virtiofsd
/usr/sbin/runc
/usr/sbin/sbuild-adduser
/usr/sbin/sbuild-destroychroot
1password
Discord
MongoDB Compass
code
github-desktop
obsidian
opera
polypane
signal-desktop
slack
steam
wpcom
2 processes have profiles defined.
0 processes are in enforce mode.
0 processes are in complain mode.
0 processes are in prompt mode.
0 processes are in kill mode.
2 processes are unconfined but have a profile defined.
/usr/sbin/cups-browsed (2749)
/usr/sbin/cupsd (1929)
0 processes are in mixed mode.
--
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624
Title:
apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu:
New
Bug description:
with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Breaks my VPN
*surfshark
[33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . :
Permission denied (13)
Trace/breakpoint trap
It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal.
I removed apparmor for proof
*apt policy apparmor
apparmor:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Version table:
4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500
500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages
Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark
support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything
wrong on their end.
So far it points to apparmor
ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04
Package: apparmor (not installed)
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3
Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs
ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6
Architecture: amd64
CasperMD5CheckResult: pass
CurrentDesktop: XFCE
Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023
InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127)
SourcePackage: apparmor
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)
modified.conffile..etc.default.apport:
# set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it
# you can temporarily override this with
# sudo service apport start force_start=1
enabled=0
mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263
To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions
--
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Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
With apparmor
*grep 'network' /etc/apparmor.d/ab*/*
/etc/apparmor.d/abi/3.0:network {af_unix {yes
/etc/apparmor.d/abi/3.0:network_v8 {af_mask {unspec unix inet ax25 ipx
appletalk netrom bridge atmpvc x25 inet6 rose netbeui security key netlink
packet ash econet atmsvc rds sna irda pppox wanpipe llc ib mpls can tipc
bluetooth iucv rxrpc isdn phonet ieee802154 caif alg nfc vsock kcm qipcrtr smc
xdp
/etc/apparmor.d/abi/4.0:network {af_mask {unspec unix inet ax25 ipx appletalk
netrom bridge atmpvc x25 inet6 rose netbeui security key netlink packet ash
econet atmsvc rds sna irda pppox wanpipe llc ib mpls can tipc bluetooth iucv
rxrpc isdn phonet ieee802154 caif alg nfc vsock kcm qipcrtr smc xdp mctp
/etc/apparmor.d/abi/4.0:network_v8 {af_mask {unspec unix inet ax25 ipx
appletalk netrom bridge atmpvc x25 inet6 rose netbeui security key netlink
packet ash econet atmsvc rds sna irda pppox wanpipe llc ib mpls can tipc
bluetooth iucv rxrpc isdn phonet ieee802154 caif alg nfc vsock kcm qipcrtr smc
xdp mctp
/etc/apparmor.d/abi/kernel-5.4-outoftree-network:network {af_unix {yes
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/apache2-common: network inet stream,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/apache2-common: network inet6 stream,
grep: /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/apparmor_api: Is a directory
grep: /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/base.d: Is a directory
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/dbus-network-manager-strict: include if exists
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/kde-open5: include
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: network inet stream,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: network inet6 stream,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: # support for passt network back-end
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: # to vast speed increases when
working with network-based lookups.
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: # TCP/UDP network access
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: network inet stream,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: network inet6 stream,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: network inet dgram,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: network inet6 dgram,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/nameservice: network netlink raw,
grep: /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-browsers.d: Is a directory
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-helpers: # Allow all networking
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-helpers: network inet,
/etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-helpers: network inet6,
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624
Title:
apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu:
New
Bug description:
with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Breaks my VPN
*surfshark
[33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . :
Permission denied (13)
Trace/breakpoint trap
It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal.
I removed apparmor for proof
*apt policy apparmor
apparmor:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7
Version table:
4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500
500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages
Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark
support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything
wrong on their end.
So far it points to apparmor
ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04
Package: apparmor (not installed)
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3
Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs
ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6
Architecture: amd64
CasperMD5CheckResult: pass
CurrentDesktop: XFCE
Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023
InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago)
InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127)
SourcePackage: apparmor
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)
modified.conffile..etc.default.apport:
# set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it
# you can temporarily override this with
# sudo service apport start force_start=1
enabled=0
mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263
To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions
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[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
No apparmor still but i will include *grep 'network' /etc/apparmor.d/ab*/* grep: /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/base.d: Is a directory /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: network inet stream, /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: network inet6 stream, /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/libvirt-qemu: # support for passt network back-end grep: /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/ubuntu-browsers.d: Is a directory -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 2046624] Re: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn
** Information type changed from Private Security to Public Security -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apparmor in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2046624 Title: apparmor breaks surfshark vpn Status in apparmor package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: with the new apparmor Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Breaks my VPN *surfshark [33104:1216/072144.904027:FATAL:credentials.cc(127)] Check failed: . : Permission denied (13) Trace/breakpoint trap It will work with --no-sandbox "surfshark --no-sandbox" not ideal. I removed apparmor for proof *apt policy apparmor apparmor: Installed: (none) Candidate: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 Version table: 4.0.0~alpha2-0ubuntu7 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages Now my VPN works as expected, spent 2 hrs this morning with surfshark support, they will get back to me in a day or two, but they can't find anything wrong on their end. So far it points to apparmor ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: apparmor (not installed) ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass CurrentDesktop: XFCE Date: Sat Dec 16 10:40:00 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-12-10 (6 days ago) InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231127) SourcePackage: apparmor UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) modified.conffile..etc.default.apport: # set this to 0 to disable apport, or to 1 to enable it # you can temporarily override this with # sudo service apport start force_start=1 enabled=0 mtime.conffile..etc.default.apport: 2023-12-12T09:43:48.905263 To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/2046624/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2044657] Re: Multiple data corruption issues in zfs
All good hear, but curious about: *apt show zfsutils-linux |grep -e "Breaks" WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts. Breaks: openrc, spl (<< 0.7.9-2), spl-dkms (<< 0.8.0~rc1), zfs-dkms (>> 2.2.2-0ubuntu1...), zfs-dkms (<< 2.2.2-0ubuntu1) Both live nicely here for me: * apt policy zfsutils-linux zfs-dkms zfsutils-linux: Installed: 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 Candidate: 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 Version table: *** 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status zfs-dkms: Installed: 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 Candidate: 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 Version table: *** 2.2.2-0ubuntu1 500 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/universe amd64 Packages 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/universe i386 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Seems solid today with multiple boots, reboots and cold boots -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2044657 Title: Multiple data corruption issues in zfs Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: Fix Committed Status in zfs-linux source package in Xenial: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux source package in Bionic: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux source package in Focal: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux source package in Jammy: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux source package in Lunar: Confirmed Status in zfs-linux source package in Mantic: Incomplete Status in zfs-linux source package in Noble: Fix Committed Bug description: [ Impact ] * Multiple data corruption issues have been identified and fixed in ZFS. Some of them, at varying real-life reproducibility frequency have been deterimed to affect very old zfs releases. Recommendation is to upgrade to 2.2.2 or 2.1.14 or backport dnat patch alone. This is to ensure users get other potentially related fixes and runtime tunables to possibly mitigate other bugs that are related and are being fixed upstream for future releases. * For jammy the 2.1.14 upgrade will bring HWE kernel support and also compatiblity/support for hardened kernel builds that mitigate SLS (straight-line-speculation). [ Test Plan ] * !!! Danger !!! use reproducer from https://zfsonlinux.topicbox.com/groups/zfs-discuss/T12876116b8607cdb and confirm if that issue is resolved or not. Do not run on production ZFS pools / systems. * autopkgtest pass (from https://ubuntu-archive- team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/ ) * adt-matrix pass (from https://kernel.ubuntu.com/adt-matrix/ ) * kernel regression zfs testsuite pass (from Kernel team RT test results summary, private) * zsys integration test pass (upgrade of zsys installed systems for all releases) * zsys install test pass (for daily images of LTS releases only that have such installer support, as per iso tracker test case) * LXD (ping LXD team to upgrade vendored in tooling to 2.2.2 and 2.1.14, and test LXD on these updated kernels) [ Where problems could occur ] * Upgrade to 2.1.14 on jammy with SLS mitigations compatiblity will introduce slight slow down on amd64 (for hw accelerated assembly code-paths only in the encryption primitives) * Uncertain of the perfomance impact of the extra checks in dnat patch fix itself. Possibly affecting speed of operation, at the benefit of correctness. [ Other Info ] * https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15571 is most current consideration of affairs To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zfs-linux/+bug/2044657/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2044969] Re: Upstream bug: ZFS feature@block_cloning causes data corruption
This affects me as well. All though this seems to be working apt policy zfs-dkms zfs-dkms: Installed: 2.2.0-0ubuntu3 Candidate: 2.2.0-0ubuntu3 Version table: 2.2.1-0ubuntu1 100 100 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble-proposed/universe amd64 Packages 100 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble-proposed/universe i386 Packages *** 2.2.0-0ubuntu3 500 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/universe amd64 Packages 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu noble/universe i386 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Please also follow the Link Mike provided -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2044969 Title: Upstream bug: ZFS feature@block_cloning causes data corruption Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Noble DAILY ISO 2023.11.27 & Current Mantic Installers. some copied files are corrupted (chunks replaced by zeros) ISSUE #15526 RE:https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/15526 zpool feature@block_cloning came out with version 2.2.0 of zfs-linux, this is not the root of that bug, but exacerbates the underlying bug. The bug was reported, and version 2.2.1 was released with that feature turned off by default, so that would be a problem out of the gate. There is a patch out which got approved, merged and built tonight that, after testing, seems to correct that: dnode_is_dirty: check dnode and its data for dirtiness #15571 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15571 Unfortunately, Mantic was released with version 2.2.0. Current DEV Noble also has 2.2.0. This feature in the default ZFS install scripts for both Mantic and Noble, with the current default, In bpool, feature@block_cloning is disable, but for rpool, the same feature is enabled, so "at risk". This feature is set at pool creation time. You cannot set this feature to disable without destroying the pool and recreating it fresh. Have good backups, via rsync. cp is affected, but not rsync. Version 2.2.1 has this feature disabled by default. It was released Nov 21, 2023. I am proposing that the patched build from tonight get pushed through for Mantic when it hits from upstream... And possibly pushing 2.2.1 through for Noble, where we can thoroughly test it in this current DEV Cycle. Also, this was filed because of Security as it relates to data integrity concerns: CVE-2023-49298 https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2023-49298 ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 24.04 Package: zfsutils-linux 2.2.0-0ubuntu3 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.5.0-9.9-generic 6.5.3 Uname: Linux 6.5.0-9-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: zfs ApportVersion: 2.27.0-0ubuntu6 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: pass Date: Mon Nov 27 19:58:32 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2023-11-23 (4 days ago) InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 24.04 "Noble Numbat" - Daily amd64 (20231123) ProcEnviron: LANG=en_US.UTF-8 PATH=(custom, no user) SHELL=/bin/bash TERM=xterm-256color SourcePackage: zfs-linux UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zfs-linux/+bug/2044969/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 2044630] Re: zfs-dkms 2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2- Kernel module failed to build
I have no logs, it blew my kernel out of boot. "you need to load the kernel first" -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to zfs-linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/2044630 Title: zfs-dkms 2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2- Kernel module failed to build Status in zfs-linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: On todays updates, zfs-dkms 2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2 failed to build kernel module. Genrated Crash report, but couldn't send it on it's own. Error it kept throwing was: >>> Setting up zfs-dkms (2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2) ... Loading new zfs-2.1.5 DKMS files... Building for 6.2.0-36-generic 6.2.0-37-generic Building initial module for 6.2.0-36-generic configure: error: *** None of the expected "iops->get_acl()" interfaces were detected. *** This may be because your kernel version is newer than what is *** supported, or you are using a patched custom kernel with *** incompatible modifications. *** *** ZFS Version: zfs-2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2 *** Compatible Kernels: 3.10 - 5.19 ERROR: Cannot create report: [Errno 17] File exists: '/var/crash/zfs-dkms.0.crash' Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 6.2.0-36-generic (x86_64) Consult /var/lib/dkms/zfs/2.1.5/build/make.log for more information. dpkg: error processing package zfs-dkms (--configure): installed zfs-dkms package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 10 >>> ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 22.04 Package: zfs-dkms 2.1.5-1ubuntu6~22.04.2 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 6.2.0-36.37~22.04.1-generic 6.2.16 Uname: Linux 6.2.0-36-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia_modeset nvidia zfs zunicode zavl icp zcommon znvpair ApportVersion: 2.20.11-0ubuntu82.5 Architecture: amd64 CasperMD5CheckResult: unknown CurrentDesktop: GNOME Date: Sat Nov 25 21:00:27 2023 InstallationDate: Installed on 2021-09-23 (793 days ago) InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS "Focal Fossa" - Release amd64 (20210819) PackageArchitecture: all SourcePackage: zfs-linux UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to jammy on 2022-08-17 (466 days ago) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zfs-linux/+bug/2044630/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Bug 1772314] Re: Ubuntu UEFI grub does not add Arch Linux correctly
Same here! And can confirm "This happens every time a new Ubuntu system is added to a PC with Arch Linux." -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1772314 Title: Ubuntu UEFI grub does not add Arch Linux correctly To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vm-builder/+bug/1772314/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[android-developers] ContractsContract returns only partial list of contacts?
Ran into a weird problem, not sure if its me or something in my code.
I added 2 contacts manually from the phone, imported some 400 from
Facebook. Total of 420 contacts displayed in the contacts list.
When i run this query
Cursor cursor = this.getContentResolver()
.query(ContactsContract.Contacts.CONTENT_URI,
new String[] { ContactsContract.Contacts._ID,
ContactsContract.Contacts.DISPLAY_NAME },
null,
null,
null);
I seemingly get back only 7 rows. Two are the contacts that I added,
and 5 (arbitrarily chosen maybe?) from facebook.
Of the 5 I imported from facebook, they all have @gmail email
accounts. I have other contacts registered with @gmail emails either
so I'm not sure why I dont get back all 400+.
Anyone see what I'm doing wrong?
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Details regarding PSPP install issue
Hello, --- Computing dependencies for pspp --- Activating expat @2.0.1_0 Error: The following dependencies failed to build: gsl texinfo gettext expat libiconv gperf ncurses ncursesw lzmautils gtk2 atk gtk-doc docbook-xml docbook-xml-4.1.2 xmlcatmgr docbook-xml-4.2 docbook-xml-4.3 docbook-xml-4.4 docbook-xml-4.5 docbook-xml-5.0 docbook-xsl gnome-doc-utils iso-codes libxslt libxml2 zlib p5-xml-parser pkgconfig py26-libxml2 python26 bzip2 db46 gdbm openssl readline sqlite3 tk Xft2 fontconfig freetype xrender xorg-libX11 xorg-bigreqsproto xorg-inputproto xorg-kbproto xorg-libXau xorg-xproto xorg-libXdmcp xorg-util-macros xorg-xcmiscproto xorg-xextproto xorg-xf86bigfontproto xorg-xtrans xorg-renderproto tcl xorg-libXScrnSaver xorg-libXext xorg-scrnsaverproto rarian getopt intltool gnome-common p5-getopt-long p5-pathtools p5-scalar-list-utils jasper jpeg libpng shared-mime-info tiff xorg-libXcomposite xorg-compositeproto xorg-libXfixes xorg-fixesproto xorg-libXcursor xorg-libXdamage xorg-damageproto xorg-libXi xorg-libXinerama xorg-xineramaproto xorg-libXrandr xorg-randrproto libglade2 plotutils When I run port install pspp it looks for dependencies and builds the list but when trying to install them it returns an error the size of a paragraph. I am trying to install pspp on mac osx 10.4.11 (powerpc). I installed Macports 1.8.2. any input is appreciated. Thank you, -Rick ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
PSPP install issue
Hello, I don't have the exact error off hand. But when I run port install pspp it looks for dependencies and builds the list but when trying to install them it returns an error the size of a paragraph. I am trying to install pspp on mac osx 10.4.11. I installed Macports 1.8.2. any input is appreciated. Thank you, -Rick ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
[osol-discuss] Full Root? - I think Not
Hi all. I come from the Real Solaris world, been working with Solaris 10 for about 3 years now, and decided to give OpenSoalaris a place on my home server vice Soalris 10 x86. I think I'm missing something here, on Solaris 10 when I create a 'full' root zone, it copies over 100,000's of files, and take up about 4GB. I try that in Opensolaris and it copies over 72 MB WTF? So, I did the sysid cfg and logged in and started to compile some stuff, only to note that there is ton's of stuff missing. X11 libraries, etc... Is this the default behaviour of Opensolaris, a 'full' root really means. 1/10 of the OS installed? Here is my zone file, the zone it self works, but is missing tons of pkgs! # uname -a SunOS opensolaris 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86pc # cat test_full.cfg create -b set zonepath=/zones/test set autoboot=true set ip-type=shared add net set address=192.168.1.61 set physical=e1000g0 end add attr set name=comment set type=string set value=Test Zones end # zoneadm -z test install A ZFS file system has been created for this zone. Authority: Using http://pkg.opensolaris.org/release/. Image: Preparing at /zones/test/root ... done. Cache: Using /var/pkg/download. Installing: (output follows) DOWNLOADPKGS FILES XFER (MB) Completed 52/52 7862/7862 72.41/72.41 PHASEACTIONS Install Phase12939/12939 PHASE ITEMS Reading Existing Index 9/9 Indexing Packages 52/52 Note: Man pages can be obtained by installing SUNWman Postinstall: Copying SMF seed repository ... done. Postinstall: Working around http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=741 Done: Installation completed in 274.436 seconds. Next Steps: Boot the zone, then log into the zone console (zlogin -C) to complete the configuration process -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Obama's Campaign Promises
Hi all, The St. Petersburg Times has a great site where they track all of Obama’s promises. In 3 days, he’s fulfilled 5 and has 14 pending, with no action yet on 477 others. I have it bookmarked. http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/. Let’s hold him to his promises (at least the ones we believe in). Rick S --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: on MLK Day
Thanks, Your link is a great resource! Rick S On Jan 20, 3:30 pm, ornamentalmind ornamentalm...@yahoo.com wrote: Perhaps you could use this reference next timehttp://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ On Jan 20, 9:03 am, Clogtowner clogtow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi y'all - yes I've been discussing this on another board. To support my argument that Jesus is/was perfect, I quoted 1 Peter 2:22 He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. The very underhand Rick replied by pointing out various verses in the bible, too numerous to list, which contradict this, showing Jesus' treatment of family, friends and fig trees etc. I was shocked to learn of these contradictions in the bible. I also think it was grossly unfair of Rick to point them out in public. I was forced to eat my words and revise my whole opinion of Jesus. I'm trying to find in my heart the forgiveness that Rick probably feels he deserves. I fart in his general direction! On Jan 19, 6:25 pm, ornamentalmind ornamentalm...@yahoo.com wrote: Would you like to expand on that clog? On Jan 19, 12:55 pm, Clogtowner clogtow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi y'all - only Jesus is/was perfect! On Jan 19, 2:16 pm, ornamentalmind ornamentalm...@yahoo.com wrote: Of course, the unsanitized MLK, like Bill, loved to 'sleep around' too. On Jan 19, 11:54 am, Rick S ris...@comcast.net wrote: So many people remember Martin Luther King Jr. in the sanitized way that network television presents him. We are shown excerpts of his I have a Dream or Been to the Mountaintop speeches. But he was also an ardent advocate of peace and of ending the war in Vietnam. One of his best speeches was also one of the most criticized. Time magazine and the Washington Post stopped short of calling him a traitor to the nation. If their editors were to re-read his speech today, they would recognize it as one of the most powerful speeches against militarism ever. I believe it is one of his best speeches and I wish more peoiple would read it in its entirety. So, for those who would like to understand more about the real MLK, I will provide a link http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/19-13. For those who do not wish to read a long speech, I will include some of my favorite excerpts: A time comes when silence is betrayal. That time has come for us in relation to Vietnam. There is at the outset a very obvious and almost facile connection between the war in Vietnam and the struggle I, and others, have been waging in America. A few years ago there was a shining moment in that struggle. It seemed as if there was a real promise of hope for the poor -- both black and white -- through the poverty program. There were experiments, hopes, new beginnings. Then came the buildup in Vietnam and I watched the program broken and eviscerated as if it were some idle political plaything of a society gone mad on war, and I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as adventures like Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic destructive suction tube. So I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such. As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent. This I believe to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation's self- defined goals and positions. We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy, for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers. I am
Re: Does Christian scripture allow friendships with people of other faiths or non-faiths?
Hi Steve, I lent the book to my daughter when she started going to church but I don't think she read it. I have read three or four of Ehrman's books and I have his course from the Teaching Company on the period of time between Jesus and Constantine. Jesus, Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium is probably the most concise view of the meaning of Jesus's teachings I have read. It's very clear that he was not speaking of the far future in his teachings. He would've believed that the End of Days was imminent. Wealthy preachers would not like to hear this message though. It would mean they would have to give up all of their possessions to the poor. It's still available on Amazon and it is highly reccomended. Rick S On Jan 19, 11:36 am, Clogtowner clogtow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi y'all - I have an urgent need to know more about your book Rick?? I'm sure everyone else would like to know too. On Jan 18, 3:57 pm, Rick S ris...@comcast.net wrote: One of my favorite of Bart Ehrman's works is Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium I think all of these quotes can be interpreted based on his observation of Jesus as an Apocalypticist (of course I believe he didn't exist at all). Here is a brief synopsis taken from a reviewer of his book on Amazon: Bart Ehrman conveys to us an historian's view of who Jesus was. His conclusion is the same as that of the famous humanitarian doctor and theologian, Albert Schweitzer, in the early years of the 20th century: Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, who was convinced that Doomsday was about to arrive very soon, even in his own lifetime. The present age was evil, and the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God would change everything. Hence you must prepare yourself. Give away all your possessions to the poor: a rich man has little chance of entering the Kingdom of God. Everything will be turned upside down: the weak and poor will prevail over the rich and mighty. Mend your ways: Love God above everything! Love your neighbour as yourself! Love even your enemy! Apocalyptic ideas were common in Palestine 2000 years ago. And they turn up, in various forms, throughout Christendom. Ehrman provides illuminating examples from present-day America. However, the apocalyptic interpretation of Jesus is rather out of favour with most contemporary Christian scholars. But Ehrman can rely on solid arguments. The first third of his book is an admirably clear presentation of the way a professional historian goes about constructing his picture of the past. He has to assess the date of his sources, and analyse their relation to each other, their possible bias, and their context. All this should be required reading for people who think they must interpret their Bible literally. In most of the rest of the book Ehrman uses his critical apparatus for discussing the Jesus figure of the Gospels and Acts. This leads him to a conclusion which is very much in line with that of the majority of modern Christian scholars. Regrettably, Ehrman's main point, Jesus' apocalypticism, tends to recede into the background in this part of the book. However, it is reasserted with some force in the final chapters. As the product of a clear-sighted and well-informed liberal scholar, this book has much to offer. Ehrman presents current scholarly opinion clearly and fairly, and in a very readable style. In my opinion, however, he could have been more controversial on some basic issues. I am thinking especially of the case for considering the Gospel Jesus as a deliberate and wholly mythical construction of the second-century Christian church, which needed a Jesus figure which was both human and spiritual, in its struggle with the Gnostics of their time. That is the picture presented, with considerable supporting new evidence and fresh arguments, in several recent books by George Wells, Timothy Freke Peter Gandy, Earl Doherty, and myself. But perhaps it is just as well that Ehrman avoids scaring away readers of a less liberal turn of mind than himself. They will certainly find much food for thought in his book. I should also like to draw attention here to a recent book by Michael Rick S On Jan 13, 11:06 pm, Jason (Memphis) jason_gros...@hotmail.com wrote: this is a post from Clog on the Occam's site: Hi y'all - yes, you heard correctly. We have been thinking of this subject as a topic for future discussion but I suppose we could equally well address it here. When engaged in a friendship with a Christian, I must admit to feeling something less than a second class citizen, and on occasions rather lucky to be alive at all. There is nothing interposed between my friendship with a Christian - I have nothing to hide, and I say what I believe quite openly - the Christian has nothing to fear from me. I do not feel that it can possibly be the same for a Christian
on MLK Day
So many people remember Martin Luther King Jr. in the sanitized way that network television presents him. We are shown excerpts of his I have a Dream or Been to the Mountaintop speeches. But he was also an ardent advocate of peace and of ending the war in Vietnam. One of his best speeches was also one of the most criticized. Time magazine and the Washington Post stopped short of calling him a traitor to the nation. If their editors were to re-read his speech today, they would recognize it as one of the most powerful speeches against militarism ever. I believe it is one of his best speeches and I wish more peoiple would read it in its entirety. So, for those who would like to understand more about the real MLK, I will provide a link http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/19-13. For those who do not wish to read a long speech, I will include some of my favorite excerpts: A time comes when silence is betrayal. That time has come for us in relation to Vietnam. There is at the outset a very obvious and almost facile connection between the war in Vietnam and the struggle I, and others, have been waging in America. A few years ago there was a shining moment in that struggle. It seemed as if there was a real promise of hope for the poor -- both black and white -- through the poverty program. There were experiments, hopes, new beginnings. Then came the buildup in Vietnam and I watched the program broken and eviscerated as if it were some idle political plaything of a society gone mad on war, and I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as adventures like Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic destructive suction tube. So I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such. As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent. This I believe to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation's self- defined goals and positions. We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy, for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers. I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered. We are now faced with the fact that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being too late. Procrastination is still the thief of time. Life often leaves us standing bare, naked and dejected with a lost opportunity. The tide in the affairs of men does not remain at the flood; it ebbs. We may cry out deperately for time to pause in her passage, but time is deaf to every plea and rushes on. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residue of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: Too late. There is an invisible book of life that faithfully records our vigilance or our neglect. The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on... We still have a choice today; nonviolent coexistence or violent co-annihilation. Rick S --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
The roots of terror
Hi all, Every day we see on television more children being rushed by their fathers or mothers into hospitals in Gaza, terrorized by the bombing of their city by Israel. For a long time, I have thought that changing the direction of this conflict lie in the cowardice of those who could speak up but don't because they fear the Israel Lobby. Neither the Legislative or Executive branches of our government will condemn the actions of Israel, nor will the corporate controlled media. But what are they afraid of? I have found probably the best single article that explains this. I will provide both a quick except and a link. I really hope members will take some time to read this article. I believe it will answer most of the questions about why this is such an intractable problem. excerpt: saying that Israel and the US are united by a shared terrorist threat has the causal relationship backwards: the US has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel, not the other way around. Support for Israel is not the only source of anti-American terrorism, but it is an important one, and it makes winning the war on terror more difficult. There is no question that many al-Qaida leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are motivated by Israel’s presence in Jerusalem and the plight of the Palestinians. Unconditional support for Israel makes it easier for extremists to rally popular support and to attract recruits. link: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html. Rick S --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: 4 years?
My fear is that climate change will continue to be thought of as just one of the multitudes of problems to be addressed, rather than the preeminent one. The priorities are probably going to be the economy, then Afganistan, then healthcare, oh yeah, and also climate change. We are all like the frog in the water that's slowing rising in temperature. By the time we are boiling, it's already too late. Rick S On Jan 18, 1:29 pm, ornamentalmind ornamentalm...@yahoo.com wrote: guardian.co.uk President 'has four years to save Earth' US must take the lead to avert eco-disaster Robin McKie in New York The Observer, Sunday 18 January 2009 Barack Obama has only four years to save the world. That is the stark assessment of Nasa scientist and leading climate expert Jim Hansen who last week warned only urgent action by the new president could halt the devastating climate change that now threatens Earth. Crucially, that action will have to be taken within Obama's first administration, he added. Soaring carbon emissions are already causing ice-cap melting and threaten to trigger global flooding, widespread species loss and major disruptions of weather patterns in the near future. We cannot afford to put off change any longer, said Hansen. We have to get on a new path within this new administration. We have only four years left for Obama to set an example to the rest of the world. America must take the lead. Hansen said current carbon levels in the atmosphere were already too high to prevent runaway greenhouse warming. Yet the levels are still rising despite all the efforts of politicians and scientists. Only the US now had the political muscle to lead the world and halt the rise, Hansen said. Having refused to recognise that global warming posed any risk at all over the past eight years, the US now had to take a lead as the world's greatest carbon emitter and the planet's largest economy. Cap-and-trade schemes, in which emission permits are bought and sold, have failed, he said, and must now be replaced by a carbon tax that will imposed on all producers of fossil fuels. At the same time, there must be a moratorium on new power plants that burn coal - the world's worst carbon emitter. Hansen - head of the Goddard Institute of Space Studies and winner of the WWF's top conservation award - first warned Earth was in danger from climate change in 1988 and has been the victim of several unsuccessful attempts by the White House administration of George Bush to silence his views. Hansen's institute monitors temperature fluctuations at thousands of sites round the world, data that has led him to conclude that most estimates of sea level rises triggered by rising atmospheric temperatures are too low and too conservative. For example, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says a rise of between 20cm and 60cm can be expected by the end of the century. However, Hansen said feedbacks in the climate system are already accelerating ice melt and are threatening to lead to the collapse of ice sheets. Sea-level rises will therefore be far greater - a claim backed last week by a group of British, Danish and Finnish scientists who said studies of past variations in climate indicate that a far more likely figure for sea-level rise will be about 1.4 metres, enough to cause devastating flooding of many of the world's major cities and of low-lying areas of Holland, Bangladesh and other nations. As a result of his fears about sea-level rise, Hansen said he had pressed both Britain's Royal Society and the US National Academy of Sciences to carry out an urgent investigation of the state of the planet's ice-caps. However, nothing had come of his proposals. The first task of Obama's new climate office should therefore be to order such a probe as a matter of urgency, Hansen added. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Election Issue
my first computer was an amstrad. I had forgotten the name of it. 640 K of ram. It had a 20mb hard drive. And I would prefer that to anything by Diebold. Rick S On Oct 31, 1:20 pm, Clogtowner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi y'all - the machine that I voted on a couple of weeks ago was more primitive than an amstrad comupter that I owned in the late 70s. As I have no paper print out - even an ATM machine can do that - I have no proof of vote. In UK ( don't know if this is still the case) a paper ballot was used. There were simply the names of the candidates, and an X was required next to the chosen one. The procedure took less than 30 seconds and I don't remember ever standing in line. Of course, the count took several hours, but there was a paper trail. I don't remember any questioning of the results on the lines of the Florida debacle - all it took was a recount with more witnesses. I think the desire for instant results if fuelling the problem. On Oct 31, 12:48 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.brasschecktv.com:80/page/465.html- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: God questions
Hilarious! I printed this out for friends. Rick S On Oct 29, 5:57 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your Deity would like to thank you for your belief and patronage. In order to better serve your needs, It asks that you take a few moments to answer the following questions. 1. How did you find out about your deity? __ Newspaper __ Letter Box drop __ Bible __ Torah __ Koran (non chant version) __ Koran (chant version) __ Television __ Book of Mormon __ Divine Inspiration __ Dead Sea Scrolls __ My Parents __ Government Circular __ Near Death Experience __ Near Life Experience __ National Public Radio __ Tabloid __ Usenet __ Burning Shrubbery __ Other (specify): _ 2. Which model deity did you acquire? __ Yahweh __ Jehovah __ Jesus __ Krishna __ Father, Son and Holy Ghost [Trinity Pak] __ Zeus and entourage [Olympus Pak] __ Odin and entourage [Valhalla Pak] __ Allah and Muhamad (Muslim Pak) __ Celtic (Lunatic Pak) __ Gaia/Mother Earth/Mother Nature __ Satan __ Pick from alternate list : Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye, Bacchus, Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, Eshu, Ereshkigal, Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Hades, Hebe, Hera, Helios, Hel, Hephaestus, Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, Ishtar, Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Krishna Kronos, Korravai, Loki, Lugh, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius, Morrigan, Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun, Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto, Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Rhea, Saturn, Set, Selene, Shango, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu, Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus, Oh, and Lint® the Laundry God... __ None of the above, I was taken in by a false god 3. Did your Deity come to you undamaged, with all parts in good working order and with no obvious breakage or missing attributes? __ Yes __ No If no, please describe the problems you initially encountered here. Please indicate all that apply: __ Not eternal __ Not omniscient __ Not omnipotent __ Not infinite (incapable of being all things to all creations) __ Permits sex outside of marriage __ Prohibits sex outside of marriage __ Makes mistakes __ Never makes mistakes __ Makes or permits bad things to happen to good people __ Looks after life other than that on Earth __ When beseeched, doesn't stay beseeched __ Requires burnt offerings __ Requires virgin sacrifices __ Doesn't require virgin sacrifices 4. What factors were relevant in your decision to acquire a deity? Please check all that apply. __ Indoctrinated by parents __ Needed a reason to live __ Indoctrinated by society __ Needed focus in whom to despise __ Imaginary friend grew up __ Heard that it was free __ Wanted to know Jesus in the Biblical sense __ Hate to think for myself __ Wanted to meet girls/boys __ Fear of death __ Wanted to tee off parents __ Needed a day away from work __ Desperate need for certainty __ Liked Organ Music __ Need to feel Morally Superior __ Scatological material was falling out of the sky __ My shrubbery caught fire and told me to do it. 5. Have you ever worshiped a deity before? If so, Please check all that apply. __ Cthulhu __ Baal __ The Almighty Dollar __ Left Wing Liberalism __ The Radical Right __ Ra __ Beelzebub __ The Great Spirit __ The Great Pumpkin __ The Sun __ The Moon __ A burning shrubbery __ Other: 6. Are you currently using any other source of inspiration in addition to a Deity? Please check all that apply. __ Tarot __ Lottery __ Astrology __ Television __ Fortune cookies __ Psychic Friends Network __ Dianetics __ Palmistry __ Self-help books __ Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll __ Biorhythms __ Alcohol __ Tea Leaves __ EST __ Mantras __ Crystals __ Human Sacrifice __ Pyramids __ Wandering around a desert __ Insurance policies __ Burning Shrubbery __ Other:_ __ None 7. A Deity employs a limited degree of Divine Intervention to preserve the balanced level of felt presence and blind faith. Which would you prefer (circle one)? a. More Divine Intervention b. Less Divine Intervention c. Current level of Divine Intervention is just right d. Don't know...what's Divine Intervention? 8. A Deity also attempts to maintain a balanced level of disasters and miracles. Please rate on a scale of 1 - 5 his handling of the following (1=3 unsatisfactory, 3=5 excellent): a. Disasters: flood 1 2 3 4 5 famine 1 2 3 4 5 earthquake 1 2 3 4 5 war 1 2 3 4 5 pestilence 1 2 3 4 5 plague 1 2 3 4 5 suicide 1 2 3 4 5 b. Miracles: rescues
Re: The terrible truth about truth
Even though I have grown fairly weary of this discussion, I have to interject that I dislike having my words turned around on me: Rick S said I cannot give a short pat answer. As for me trying to prove some subjective proof to you through objective means, I doubt that I could. They are different versions of reality that exist simultaneously. In other words, FAITH? If I had meant faith I would've said faith. Rick S On Oct 28, 12:44 am, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said I cannot give a short, pat answer. As for me trying to prove some subjective proof to you through objective means, I doubt that I could. They are different versions of reality that exist simultaneously. In other words, FAITH? Humanist said The lord invented the oscilloscope so that the color blind can know the color red in a mathematical way. OK. We are getting somewhere. However, the name RED is just what you give that mathematical way. That still does not TELL me what RED is. It only tells me what I would expect to find in the properties of RED. Not what RED is. Would you not have to show me, too? Is what you mean by the mathematical way like the Tao? :-) I am thinking of the blind here I guess :-) stemcell On Oct 28, 12:20 am, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Orn said Convention. Agreed upon. ‘truth’... That still does not tell me what truth is other than what someone says it is. A majority might DISbelieve evolution but that does not make it false. Orn said By know, I mean have direct experience rather than a shared notion of what a word means. Define truth? What do you mean direct experience? How do I judge that? If it is not some absolute , no gradations or variations, then it is meaningless. This is my point. If one is to say that someting is true, then one needs to provide an objective standard that EVERYBODY can agree upon, independent of how they FEEL. For instance. I can measure the room temp, which is cold by the way, an find that it is 39 degrees. If I do this over and over (and that said room is constant) then even if I say that I think the room is 100 degrees then I am mistaken. But if I say that it is 39 degrees, then I am making a truth statement. There is no subjectivity in there. Orn. Thank you for the conversation. I hope it continues. :-) Humanist said Black is not red is not subjective it is objective, measurable, observable, testable with instrumentation. How so? Is your BLACK my BLACK? Is your RED my BLACK? Tell me how you can measure a subjective claim like that? stemcell On Oct 27, 11:15 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “…it seems to me it still will be subjective. For instance, what do you mean by RED? It seems meaningless unless you provide a consistent standard of what IS RED.” – Stem Yes stem, all concepts are subjective. This includes the notion of color and other sense organ things. We have a convention about what in these realms is ‘true’ (small ‘t’) and what is not true. Example: a stop light is red, the go light is green. Convention. Agreed upon ‘truth’. Nothing objective in an ultimate sense yet though. Someone who is red/green blind comes to mind here to show yet another reason why it is relative/subjective too. “Kind of like the meaningless statements when one talks about collective consciousness or god/God.” – Stem Well, these things are ‘meaningless’ if one does not know what they are. By know, I mean have direct experience rather than a shared notion of what a word means. Always has been that way. This is one fairly good example of why negative theology has been around ‘forever’. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_theology On Oct 27, 3:45 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said If I ate a peach and told you that it tasted like an apple to me, how could you possibly prove that I was mistaken? It might taste like a peach to you and everyone else. But it still might taste like an apple to me. You are right. I guess that is what Orn. calls subjective truths. But that still does not get you very far. If you want me to agree with your assertion that the peach taste like an apple, I would say, OK. Show me how you got to that conclusion. (Freethinker?) :-) Give me the objective standard by which you judge it to taste like an apple? Unless and untill you do that I have no way to judge the truth (value?) of your statement that the peach taste like an apple. Now, this is kind of an absurd argument, to me. Things like taste is subjective...and/or rather the description thereof. If you tell me that you had some kind of oceanic feeling, I can't argue with that. But if you want me to believe it as truth, then you have to supply me with an objective standard. Otherwise I will just have to hold
Re: The terrible truth about truth
No, I can't point to a better verification system than logic. It is the best verification system I know of. But that is not the same thing as saying it is limited in scope. Anyone who has studied Quantum physics even a little will realize that there are things in the universe that seem to defy logic. And I'm not saying to replace logic with faith or pyschic abilities. There are more things operating in our lives than just logic. When we react quickly to a stimulus, we don't have time to think. Other scientists have gone beyond narrow frameworks. For example, Carl Jung talked about a collective unconsious. And there's intuition, like when twins separated by some distance know the other is hurt. Logic is great but it is not the only tool in the toolbox. Rick S On Oct 27, 9:23 am, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said, My aim is not to disparage logic, only to point out that it is limited in scope. Can you provide an example of another type of verification system that works better than logic? Do you know of any system that is not limited or at least not as limited and what is that system? The only ones I can come up with are psychic abilities and FAITH. :-) Not sure FAITH is a system but go with me here. :-) Taylor said, Most people who go to great lengths to point out limits of science (real or imagined) are usually doing so in order to remove obstacles to your believing in their brand of woo. Dr. Wayne Dyer, perhaps? Charles Gillihan? Michael Behe? Oooh oooh! Wait...Steven C. Myer of the Discovery Institute. Taylor said, I see nothing on the site about who Dr. Terry Halwes is or what his credentials are. That normally means a medical doctor or dentist, at best, but more likely a Ph.D. in theology or some other pseudo science. In other words, not a scientist. What about a phone psychic? Wait...did I just say that or think it? stemcell On Oct 26, 11:53 pm, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, In researching an idea for an essay I had about the limits of logic, I came across a very interesting essay by a scientist, to which I will provide a link. By the way, I also picked up some very interesting quotes about logic. My aim is not to disparage logic, only to point out that it is limited in scope. First the quotes: What is laid down, ordered, factual is never enough to embrace the whole truth: life always spills over the rim of every cup. - Boris Pasternak Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit. - Antoine de Saint-Exupery A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore The wrong view of science betrays itself in the craving to be right; for it is not his possession of knowledge, of irrefutable truth, that makes the man of science, but his persistent and recklessly critical quest for truth. Sir Karl Popper The Logic of Scientific Discovery Here's the link: http://dharma-haven.org/science/terrible-truth.htm. Rick S- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The terrible truth about truth
I'm just trying to be diplomatic. One of the things I've noticed in all the groups I've joined is that some members seem very dogmatic. Everyone has a reason for believing what they believe, but to believe that one has somehow reached the very pinnacle of thought just by rejecting relgious thoughts or ideas and adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry. So, another question. Is it possible to be a fundamentalist atheist? On Oct 27, 11:51 am, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. - Rick I would remove the term 'might be' here and replace it with 'is'. On Oct 27, 9:31 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there are thousands or maybe millions of twins that would disagree with your assessment. No being a twin myself, I can never know for sure. As for going beyond logic, I saw a very interesting video on TED http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_strok... where a brain scientist reveals what happenned to her during her stroke. She calls it a powerful stroke of insight. My point is not that we should not use logic and rationality. Of course we should. But to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. Rick S On Oct 27, 10:58 am, Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And there's intuition, like when twins separated by some distance know the other is hurt. No, they don't. Anyone who has studied Quantum physics even a little will realize that there are things in the universe that seem to defy logic. And You're misusing the term logic here. Quantum physics may have propositions which contradict the propositions you use in everyday life, but the logic that manipulates those propositions remains the same.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The terrible truth about truth
By pinnacle of thought I mean that one believes they have arrived at the absolute truth (and no one can convince them otherwise). Rick S On Oct 27, 12:44 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “I'm just trying to be diplomatic.” – Rick Yes Rick, I knew that. I was just using a lazy and simple method of adding my view to the mix. “One of the things I've noticed in all the groups I've joined is that some members seem very dogmatic.” – Rick Yes, and not only in groups. Differing levels of belief (dogma), many of which are based upon nothing are found within the human psyche… always have, always will be. “Everyone has a reason for believing what they believe, but to believe that one has somehow reached the very pinnacle of thought just by rejecting relgious thoughts or ideas and adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry.” – Rick I’m not sure that we all have reason(s) for our belief structures, many do, but I doubt all do. And, what is this ‘pinnacle of thought’ you mention? Do you imply omniscience? If so, it is a strange juxtaposition with scientific thought, appropriate, but strange. “So, another question. Is it possible to be a fundamentalist atheist?” – Rick Fundamentalism is found for any and all types of thought, atheism included. This is directly implied by your earlier comments on dogma. And, often fanaticism is associated with this level of ‘understanding’. On Oct 27, 10:33 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just trying to be diplomatic. One of the things I've noticed in all the groups I've joined is that some members seem very dogmatic. Everyone has a reason for believing what they believe, but to believe that one has somehow reached the very pinnacle of thought just by rejecting relgious thoughts or ideas and adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry. So, another question. Is it possible to be a fundamentalist atheist? On Oct 27, 11:51 am, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. - Rick I would remove the term 'might be' here and replace it with 'is'. On Oct 27, 9:31 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there are thousands or maybe millions of twins that would disagree with your assessment. No being a twin myself, I can never know for sure. As for going beyond logic, I saw a very interesting video on TED http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_strok... where a brain scientist reveals what happenned to her during her stroke. She calls it a powerful stroke of insight. My point is not that we should not use logic and rationality. Of course we should. But to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. Rick S On Oct 27, 10:58 am, Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And there's intuition, like when twins separated by some distance know the other is hurt. No, they don't. Anyone who has studied Quantum physics even a little will realize that there are things in the universe that seem to defy logic. And You're misusing the term logic here. Quantum physics may have propositions which contradict the propositions you use in everyday life, but the logic that manipulates those propositions remains the same.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: An interesting 6 minute video
Thanks! I really enjoyed the insight. Rick S On Oct 23, 11:22 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbSu69SwU1o --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The terrible truth about truth
Someone should name a town Absolute Truth so we could arrive there. I once had a friend who told me there were no absolutes. I asked him if he was absolutely sure. Rick S On Oct 27, 12:57 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By pinnacle of thought I mean that one believes they have arrived at the absolute truth (and no one can convince them otherwise). - Rick Yes Rick, and, by extension, would not this arrival at 'the absolute truth' result in omniscience? On Oct 27, 10:51 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By pinnacle of thought I mean that one believes they have arrived at the absolute truth (and no one can convince them otherwise). Rick S On Oct 27, 12:44 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “I'm just trying to be diplomatic.” – Rick Yes Rick, I knew that. I was just using a lazy and simple method of adding my view to the mix. “One of the things I've noticed in all the groups I've joined is that some members seem very dogmatic.” – Rick Yes, and not only in groups. Differing levels of belief (dogma), many of which are based upon nothing are found within the human psyche… always have, always will be. “Everyone has a reason for believing what they believe, but to believe that one has somehow reached the very pinnacle of thought just by rejecting relgious thoughts or ideas and adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry.” – Rick I’m not sure that we all have reason(s) for our belief structures, many do, but I doubt all do. And, what is this ‘pinnacle of thought’ you mention? Do you imply omniscience? If so, it is a strange juxtaposition with scientific thought, appropriate, but strange. “So, another question. Is it possible to be a fundamentalist atheist?” – Rick Fundamentalism is found for any and all types of thought, atheism included. This is directly implied by your earlier comments on dogma. And, often fanaticism is associated with this level of ‘understanding’. On Oct 27, 10:33 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just trying to be diplomatic. One of the things I've noticed in all the groups I've joined is that some members seem very dogmatic. Everyone has a reason for believing what they believe, but to believe that one has somehow reached the very pinnacle of thought just by rejecting relgious thoughts or ideas and adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry. So, another question. Is it possible to be a fundamentalist atheist? On Oct 27, 11:51 am, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. - Rick I would remove the term 'might be' here and replace it with 'is'. On Oct 27, 9:31 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there are thousands or maybe millions of twins that would disagree with your assessment. No being a twin myself, I can never know for sure. As for going beyond logic, I saw a very interesting video on TED http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_strok... where a brain scientist reveals what happenned to her during her stroke. She calls it a powerful stroke of insight. My point is not that we should not use logic and rationality. Of course we should. But to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. Rick S On Oct 27, 10:58 am, Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And there's intuition, like when twins separated by some distance know the other is hurt. No, they don't. Anyone who has studied Quantum physics even a little will realize that there are things in the universe that seem to defy logic. And You're misusing the term logic here. Quantum physics may have propositions which contradict the propositions you use in everyday life, but the logic that manipulates those propositions remains the same.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email
Re: The terrible truth about truth
No, being dogmatic or fundamentalist means being unable to even consider another point of view. Rick S On Oct 27, 12:51 pm, Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: adopting scientific thought as the only valid form of reasoning seems to me to be very similar to the fundamentalist rigidity they decry. So, asking for evidence is dogmatic and fundamentalist ? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The terrible truth about truth
Because something is subjective does not mean it cannot possibly be true. It only means that it cannot be measured by another standard, like objectivity. Is perfect objectivity even possible? I remember an old saying Even though the experts all agree, they well may be mistaken. I can easily find several subjective comments on the Internet from twins commenting on their feelings about one another when they are apart. Perhaps these would not be accepted in a scientific study. Yet, if you or I were a twin and had this happen to us repeatedly, I think we might question the objective outsider's point of view. If I ate a peach and told you that it tasted like an apple to me, how could you possibly prove that I was mistaken? It might taste like a peach to you and everyone else. But it still might taste like an apple to me. It is estimated that the English language contains about 500,000 words. It is also estimated that Germans have a vocabulary of about 185,000 words and the French about 100,000. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JohnnyLing.shtml. The average educated person knows about 20,000 words. From these words we form our conceptions about the world. Do English speakers have a greater grasp of reality because they have more words to choose from? My greater point is that conceptions about the world as it exists today are probably much more accurate than conceptions that could have been arrived at in past ages, even though many ancient philosophers provided great insights. But there are still limits to the amount of things we can even conceive of, like what a bug thinks or what is happenning right now on habitable planets in distant galaxies. There's more to be known than we can ever conceive, even if we were to expand our lifetimes to hundreds of years. We make educated guesses that conform with our conceptions of reality. We think a phenomenon to be true when it agrees with our standards and our conceptions of reality. But what if our conception of reality is flawed? There is great truth to the statement we see the world not as it is but as we are. Rick S Rick S On Oct 27, 3:14 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said I'm sure there are thousands or maybe millions of twins that would disagree with your assessment. See earlier post about objective standards. Plus, how is one to know that they are telling the truth? Personal anecdotes are subjective. stemcell On Oct 27, 11:31 am, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there are thousands or maybe millions of twins that would disagree with your assessment. No being a twin myself, I can never know for sure. As for going beyond logic, I saw a very interesting video on TED http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_strok... where a brain scientist reveals what happenned to her during her stroke. She calls it a powerful stroke of insight. My point is not that we should not use logic and rationality. Of course we should. But to suggest that there is no possibilty that something might exist that could provide more insight into our lives other than just using our minds in their conscious state might be too dogmatic. Rick S On Oct 27, 10:58 am, Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And there's intuition, like when twins separated by some distance know the other is hurt. No, they don't. Anyone who has studied Quantum physics even a little will realize that there are things in the universe that seem to defy logic. And You're misusing the term logic here. Quantum physics may have propositions which contradict the propositions you use in everyday life, but the logic that manipulates those propositions remains the same.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The terrible truth about truth
The word truth is sometimes applied as a kind of final conclusion. It reminds me of the 19th century scientist who confidently said that there was no more left to learn in science. Of course, the idea of what is truth has been debated for centuries. I cannot give a short, pat answer. As for me trying to prove some subjective proof to you through objective means, I doubt that I could. They are different versions of reality that exist simultaneously. Your last point brings up an interesting idea. Let's say someone gives an unconvincing argument even though he is correct. The truth remains the same regardless of his ability to articulate it. Though he may then be crushed in a debate by an opponent, who would probably feel that his argument was proven, the truth remains unchanged. There are many ways to win an argument. There might be fewer ways to discern the truth. Rick S On Oct 27, 5:45 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said If I ate a peach and told you that it tasted like an apple to me, how could you possibly prove that I was mistaken? It might taste like a peach to you and everyone else. But it still might taste like an apple to me. You are right. I guess that is what Orn. calls subjective truths. But that still does not get you very far. If you want me to agree with your assertion that the peach taste like an apple, I would say, OK. Show me how you got to that conclusion. (Freethinker?) :-) Give me the objective standard by which you judge it to taste like an apple? Unless and untill you do that I have no way to judge the truth (value?) of your statement that the peach taste like an apple. Now, this is kind of an absurd argument, to me. Things like taste is subjective...and/or rather the description thereof. If you tell me that you had some kind of oceanic feeling, I can't argue with that. But if you want me to believe it as truth, then you have to supply me with an objective standard. Otherwise I will just have to hold off on my judgement of such I guess. By the way, do you equate truth with fact or is it just something that feels good? If so, how do you show that? Conversly, if someone were to show you, give you an objective standard that something is real, a fact, would you be open to admit that that truth you hold is false...or at the least subjective? Sorry for the ramble. Orn. said including things like black is not red. Truths based upon at least one person's apprehension of appearances is another way of saying this. For the above example, a blind person would not agree that black is not red is a truth, unless one is only talking about the words/concepts and not the thing itself. Thanks for the feedback Orn. (an stimulating thought for/in me) I can't help but think of Wittgenstien, though. Even if you are talking about the thing itself unless you have a standard of what is RED and what is BLACK then it seems to me it still will be subjective. For instance, what do you mean by RED? It seems meaningless unless you provide a consistent standard of what IS RED. Kind of like the meaningless statements when one talks about collective consciousness or god/God. stemcell On Oct 27, 4:12 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “…Is truth not truth? Is it not all or nothing?…” – Stem No. There are subjective truths…including things like black is not red. Truths based upon at least one person's apprehension of appearances is another way of saying this. For the above example, a blind person would not agree that black is not red is a truth, unless one is only talking about the words/concepts and not the thing itself. There are ultimate truths. Truths having to do with the absolute are in this category. Things like, all is one. On Oct 27, 1:20 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Orn. said this ultimate truth How is that different from mega-truth? A smidgen of truth? etc.? Is truth not truth? Is it not all or nothing? How can a woman be a little pregnant? stemcell by the way, truthfully, great thread. :-) On Oct 27, 11:40 am, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “Science is certainly a quest for truth, but that doesn't mean that truth can never be achieved. Isn't it possible that someday we will have explained every observable aspect of nature, and all that's left is engineering? The fact that we keep replacing scientific theories with new ones that are better doesn't mean that this will keep occurring forever.” – Taylor A few observations here Taylor. First, I’m not sure which ‘truth’ you are talking about when associating the term with science. Is it some sort of ultimate truth? A unified theory? Perhaps you have addressed this elsewhere, but in context your intention is not clear to me. It’s almost a tautology. As to your apparently rhetorical question about an ontology based on possibilities
Re: The terrible truth about truth
It depends on what you consider 'truth. Really, the truth is I want to watch Heroes on television in a few minutes, so I will let you have the last word on this if you care to reply. Rick S On Oct 27, 6:42 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said Let's say someone gives an unconvincing argument even though he is correct That is what I want to find out. How would I know he is correct and how does HE know He is correct? I understand the subjective point. But how am I to judge that HE is in fact correct. How is he to relate to me that I am wrong and HE is correct? We need SOME kind of objective standard to judge. So, am I correct in assuminng that HE sees truth as relative? stemcell On Oct 27, 6:18 pm, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The word truth is sometimes applied as a kind of final conclusion. It reminds me of the 19th century scientist who confidently said that there was no more left to learn in science. Of course, the idea of what is truth has been debated for centuries. I cannot give a short, pat answer. As for me trying to prove some subjective proof to you through objective means, I doubt that I could. They are different versions of reality that exist simultaneously. Your last point brings up an interesting idea. Let's say someone gives an unconvincing argument even though he is correct. The truth remains the same regardless of his ability to articulate it. Though he may then be crushed in a debate by an opponent, who would probably feel that his argument was proven, the truth remains unchanged. There are many ways to win an argument. There might be fewer ways to discern the truth. Rick S On Oct 27, 5:45 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick S said If I ate a peach and told you that it tasted like an apple to me, how could you possibly prove that I was mistaken? It might taste like a peach to you and everyone else. But it still might taste like an apple to me. You are right. I guess that is what Orn. calls subjective truths. But that still does not get you very far. If you want me to agree with your assertion that the peach taste like an apple, I would say, OK. Show me how you got to that conclusion. (Freethinker?) :-) Give me the objective standard by which you judge it to taste like an apple? Unless and untill you do that I have no way to judge the truth (value?) of your statement that the peach taste like an apple. Now, this is kind of an absurd argument, to me. Things like taste is subjective...and/or rather the description thereof. If you tell me that you had some kind of oceanic feeling, I can't argue with that. But if you want me to believe it as truth, then you have to supply me with an objective standard. Otherwise I will just have to hold off on my judgement of such I guess. By the way, do you equate truth with fact or is it just something that feels good? If so, how do you show that? Conversly, if someone were to show you, give you an objective standard that something is real, a fact, would you be open to admit that that truth you hold is false...or at the least subjective? Sorry for the ramble. Orn. said including things like black is not red. Truths based upon at least one person's apprehension of appearances is another way of saying this. For the above example, a blind person would not agree that black is not red is a truth, unless one is only talking about the words/concepts and not the thing itself. Thanks for the feedback Orn. (an stimulating thought for/in me) I can't help but think of Wittgenstien, though. Even if you are talking about the thing itself unless you have a standard of what is RED and what is BLACK then it seems to me it still will be subjective. For instance, what do you mean by RED? It seems meaningless unless you provide a consistent standard of what IS RED. Kind of like the meaningless statements when one talks about collective consciousness or god/God. stemcell On Oct 27, 4:12 pm, ornamentalmind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: “…Is truth not truth? Is it not all or nothing?…” – Stem No. There are subjective truths…including things like black is not red. Truths based upon at least one person's apprehension of appearances is another way of saying this. For the above example, a blind person would not agree that black is not red is a truth, unless one is only talking about the words/concepts and not the thing itself. There are ultimate truths. Truths having to do with the absolute are in this category. Things like, all is one. On Oct 27, 1:20 pm, stem cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Orn. said this ultimate truth How is that different from mega-truth? A smidgen of truth? etc.? Is truth not truth? Is it not all or nothing? How can a woman be a little pregnant? stemcell
Re: Critique on Obama
One of the leading mis-information clearinghouses is Media Matters for America. This book is full of mis-information. Here is a link to an article that reveals much of it. http://mediamatters.org/items/200808050011. Rick S On Oct 14, 9:26 am, Clogtowner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi y'all - here's a critique that seems to sum up Obama:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1077345/Ive-lost-faith-The-Me... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Memphis Freethought Alliance group. To post to this group, send email to memphisfreethoughtalliance@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osol-help] Setup Routing?
Hi, I'm not sure what to ask, but this is what I'm trying to workout... I have a Sun Blade 1500 (SB1500) running Solaris 10 update #3 (Yes, sparc, but it still applies). My SB1500 has two physical interfaces bge qfe. bge0 goes to my LynkSYS router qfe0 goes via Cross Over Cable to my Windows XP Box. I would like to use my SB1500 as a 'network switch' (I think that's the term) LinkSys (router) = 192.168.1.1 (Running DD-WRT SP2) SB1500 (bge0) 192.168.1.200 (Default route set to router) SB1500 (qfe0) 10.10.10.1 Windows XP 10.10.10.2 (Using RJ45 X-over adaptor) * SB1500 is good, it's on the internet ** I can ping Windows XP from SB1500, and vice versa. *** I can even ssh into SB1500 from Windows using Putty However, I can not ping router (192.168.1.1) nor get on the Internet from Windows XP box. How can I make Solaris be a network switch for my Windows XP box? I don't want to block any ports to my Windows box (LynkSYS router is running DD-WRT and doing that), I just want it to be able to access the Internet from Windows. Any ideas are most welcome. I've tried ipfilter/nat/map/pass/route add/ Argh! Nothing works! Rick. This message posted from opensolaris.org
Re: [Elektronik-a] Re: Photo
btl, tapi disarankan abez dstrika nyucinya pake aer sabun dibiarkan sampe nglupas sendiri, ocheh? Ade Kusmana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tranfer toner ke PCB menggunakan Transfer paper sama kok dengan menggunakan kertas glossy (kertas photo untuk printer deskjet). AdeK - Original Message From: johan ardin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 2, 2007 12:28:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elektronik-a] Re: Photo pake transfer paper lebih enak, caranya kertas untuk transfer paper diprint pakai lasejet, kemudian disetrika. praktis koq - Original Message From: Zainal [EMAIL PROTECTED] com To: Elektronik-a@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 4:23:14 AM Subject: [Elektronik- a] Re: Photo --- In Elektronik-a@ yahoogroups. com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi friend... Salam hangat. Aku punya problem nih Dulu aku pernah bikin PCB menggunakan tehnik Photo ( Pake positiv 20 ), dan hasilnya cukup bagus. Saat ini aku pengin membuat PCB dengan cara yang sama. MASALAHNYA, sekarang aku sulit mencari positiv 20- nya, minimalnya di Yogya aku belum menemukan lagi toko yang menjual- nya (dulu di toko sinar). Apakah ada yang bisa memberikan informasi mengenai positiv 20 (Penjual, harga). Atau ada yang punya cara lain untuk membuat PCB selain cara manual, positiv 20 atau sablon? Makasih atas info yang diberikan.. Salam dari yogya Sutan = = X= =X=== = = = Bisa mas, kalo saya buat PCB pake software eagle, trus diprint dikertas biasa. Abis itu difotocopy pake kertas glossy. Tp kalo bisa jangan cuma fotocopi satu, soalnya kalo waktu penyablonan gagal kan masih ada cadangannya. Hasil fotocopinya digunting sesuai dengan ukuran gambar. Trus diletakkan di PCB kosong dengan posisi tinta gambar yang di kertas glossy bertemu dengan tembaga pada PCB. Habis itu disetrika sekitar 10 - 15 menit sambil digosok2 pake uang logam atau pinggir lempengan seterika sampai rata. Dalam proses penyetrikaan, jangan sampai geser. Setelah itu, rendam dalam air dingin (bukan air es) selama 5 menit-an. Masih dalam posisi direndam, pelan-pelan lepasin kertas yang nempel sampai bersih. Hasilnya adalah PCB dengan jalur rangkaian berwarna hitam. Seperti biasa, kalau sudah tinggal dilarutin pake pelarut PCB dan kalo udah jadi, tintanya bisa dihapus pake bensin. atau ada cara lain?? tolong kasih tau ke saya. Thx. - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
Re: [Elektronik-a] mesin bor pcb
Selamat Sore, Waduh...kalo bor pcb mah hampir bisa ditemui di smua toko atau agen komponen elektronik, coba aja dey... a1210n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: selamat pagi, mohon info adakah di groups ini yg tahu dimana mendapatkan bor pcb di area jakarta timur. kira2 harganya berapa ya? ato adakah yang mau menjual nya. mohon infonya. salam -arion - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
Re: Balasan: Re: [Elektronik-a] Re: skema power 100 w
pake IGBT aja gmn?, tp catuan gatenya jgn lp pake optocoupler...heheh diki ardianto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mas gimana caranya. menghidupkan lampu AC 220 v..arus penggeraknya adalah DC1.5v..saya sudah gunakan komponen fer3d tetapi komponen tersebut meminta arus DC 4v..jika saya gunalan relay terlalu banyak tempat - Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! mempunyai perlindungan terbaik terhadap spam. http://id.mail.yahoo.com/ - Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
RE: [Elektronik-a] Re: Mohon bantuannya dimana service monitor sony
apa g dirubah setting brightnessnya aja?, hehehe... kali aja bsa membantu:p Dwi Hartanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beli yang LCD atau Plasma ...hhe..he... www.aircom-rf.com FM exciter KIT Stereo Coder RF Power Amplifier Antena, etc -Original Message- From:Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] OnBehalf Of pfkid06 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:44PM To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Subject:[Elektronik-a] Re: Mohon bantuannya dimana service monitorsony haha ya udah deh buang aja .sayang juga yah --- In Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com,Dwi Hartanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, maaf, saya tidak seberapa tahu mengenai tabung TV. Tapi menurut saya kalau hal itu sudah terjadi tidak dapat diperbaiki. Setiap alat ada masa pakainya. LEMBIRU === Lempar Beli Baru Salam, DwiHartanto www.aircom-rf.com FM exciter KIT Stereo Coder RF Power Amplifier Antena, etc -OriginalMessage- From: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com[mailto:Elektronik- [EMAIL PROTECTED] OnBehalf Of pfkid06 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:12 PM To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Elektronik-a] Mohon bantuannya dimana service monitorsony Pak sy ada monitor sony 21 dan 17 warna pudartidak sepekat waktu baru terutama di warna hitamnya, apa bisadiservice ? kalau bisa dimana? thanks - You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
RE: [Elektronik-a] pamit
Okey daah Kalo gtu Pak moderator, Kick dunk yang namanya Janavi Choundry dari forum ini, pliiiz... demi kesejahteraan kita bersama... hehehe --- Dwi Hartanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pertama-tama tendang si Janavi Choundry (^_^) Tiap hari orang ini kirim SPAM -Original Message- From: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick S Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:16 AM To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Elektronik-a] pamit Setujuu Lebih baik jangan menyerah, eh...ngomong² yang pada pamit udah bner² keluar dari ni forum g ya?. Yoda sodara²... mari kita hidupkan forum ini. Ada ide bagus untuk ngidupinnya?. --- Ris wanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ris_mtc%40yahoo.com com wrote: memang milis ini agak sepi dari posting. tapi kenapa harus menyerah...? mungkin sebagian besar sebagai pembaca saja. lebih baik diperbaiki saja apa yang kurang. Wong Mbanyumas - Original Message From: hadi suharnot hadi_suharnoto@ mailto:hadi_suharnoto%40yahoo.com yahoo.com To: Elektronik-a@ mailto:Elektronik-a%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:24:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elektronik-a] pamit kalau bisa jangan saya juga bosen sih tapi kalau ada sampah ya di delete aja. aku juga butuh informasi juga kok. semua informasi yg saya dapat sangat bermanfaat kita tambah ilmu dan wawasan. tq Hadi Suharnoto KumisTembaga kumis.tembaga@ gmail.com wrote: Djakarta, 15 Juni 2007 Kulonuwun, Dengan berat hati saya keluar dari milis ini karena bbrp minggu/bulan terakhir tidak ada posting yg masuk justru tiap hari banyak sampah :( Maaf jika selama ini ada tutur kata salah yg menyakitkan hati. -- Nuwun, KumisTembaga Mô Legal disclaimer - This email may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email by error), please notify the sender immediately and delete this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure, or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. __ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html __ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ yahoo.com/green_center/ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469
Re: [Elektronik-a] pamit
Setujuu Lebih baik jangan menyerah, eh...ngomong² yang pada pamit udah bner² keluar dari ni forum g ya?. Yoda sodara²... mari kita hidupkan forum ini. Ada ide bagus untuk ngidupinnya?. --- Ris wanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: memang milis ini agak sepi dari posting. tapi kenapa harus menyerah...? mungkin sebagian besar sebagai pembaca saja. lebih baik diperbaiki saja apa yang kurang. Wong Mbanyumas - Original Message From: hadi suharnot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:24:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elektronik-a] pamit kalau bisa jangan saya juga bosen sih tapi kalau ada sampah ya di delete aja. aku juga butuh informasi juga kok. semua informasi yg saya dapat sangat bermanfaat kita tambah ilmu dan wawasan. tq Hadi Suharnoto KumisTembaga kumis.tembaga@ gmail.com wrote: Djakarta, 15 Juni 2007 Kulonuwun, Dengan berat hati saya keluar dari milis ini karena bbrp minggu/bulan terakhir tidak ada posting yg masuk justru tiap hari banyak sampah :( Maaf jika selama ini ada tutur kata salah yg menyakitkan hati. -- Nuwun, KumisTembaga Mô Legal disclaimer - This email may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email by error), please notify the sender immediately and delete this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure, or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ___ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [Elektronik-a] PROTEC PADA TV
Wah, keren tuh pake proteksi² sgalaa... Apa g skalian diganti IC master programnya aja? maryono - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: salam elektronik saya sering benerin tv, tapi untuk jenis kerusakan yang satu ini ampun. nyerah. program terprotek, misal tv sanyo, sharp, polytron dan yang lainnya mungkin saya juga kurang tau, ada yang bisa bantu gak? untuk tv shrap saya udah ketemu tapi untuk yg lain belum tuh... please tolong.. __Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ - Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Re: [Elektronik-a] Re: Parallel Port FM Radio
Pake apa ya...?, ga cuman coba pake 4060,140 ma 4059 ma mc1496. Tapi kmaren pas coba² pake mikro kontroler kagak bisa coz ICnya sulid ngdapetinnya, ntuh seri SAA10XX. Iman Setiawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kalau boleh tahu bung Rick sudah nyoba PLL pake IC apa aja? Sharing dong. --- In Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wah... kalo gitu ntar kalo udah hampir jadi kabar²i ya?, hehehe... saya lagi hobi neh bikin yang pll-an!. Iman Setiawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tentu bisa. IC TC9172 itu kan IC PLL serial biasa sama seperti MC145170 (gak kompatibel sih). Di lain waktu saya juga ada rencana mau bikin exiter dari IC tsb. --- In Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com, Rick S rick_121149@ wrote: Wah, artikelnya keren abezzz... Tapi mu numpang tanya ney mumpung blom dapet datasheetnya ntuh IC, qra²...ntuh IC bisa jadi modulator pada exciter ga ya?. Trims untuk informasinya - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. - Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. - Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
Re: [Elektronik-a] rf
hehe... buat apaan ya?. Kalo buat coba² mending jangan yang gede² dey... atud... Gmana kalo liat di situsnya Marti Electronics? Good Luck! Rick maryono - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: saya ingin pemanccar fm sekitar 100 w lengkap . ada yang bisa bantu saya??? __Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz - Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Re: [Elektronik-a] crystal oscillator
Bentar² tak cari di notanya... kalo ga salah si... 031-3520242/5316320/5463008 atw ponselnya kalo kagak salah ney 08553050100 Good Luck Rick den de [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anda punya no telp-nya? thanks udah bantu. - Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. - Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
Re: [Elektronik-a] Re: Parallel Port FM Radio
Wah... kalo gitu ntar kalo udah hampir jadi kabar²i ya?, hehehe... saya lagi hobi neh bikin yang pll-an!. Iman Setiawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tentu bisa. IC TC9172 itu kan IC PLL serial biasa sama seperti MC145170 (gak kompatibel sih). Di lain waktu saya juga ada rencana mau bikin exiter dari IC tsb. --- In Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com, Rick S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wah, artikelnya keren abezzz... Tapi mu numpang tanya ney mumpung blom dapet datasheetnya ntuh IC, qra²...ntuh IC bisa jadi modulator pada exciter ga ya?. Trims untuk informasinya - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. - Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
Re: [Elektronik-a] Tanya rangkaian alat deteksi
Wah, semacam menarik neh?. Mang tokonya seluas apa ya?. Hm... gimana kalo anda coba lihat disini -http://kitsrus.com/projects/k49.pdf. Good Luck Rick akhmad_nuroni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tolong, saya memerlukan rangkaian yang dapat menangkap gerakan (manusia). rencananya untuk dipasang di toko. jadi kalo ada orang yang masuk toko terdeteksi (bisa dg suara atau lampu). kalo bisa rangkaiannya yang sederhana tapi efektif. terima kasih atas bantuannya. - Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
RE: [Elektronik-a] Re: tanya rangkaian dgn IC seri 74
Sedikit penjelasan yang bisa saya berikan, TTL kalo ga salah si kependekan dari Transistor² Logic, ya kya namanya aja transistor yang diimplementasikan sebagai gerbang logika, spt NOT, OR, NAND, AND, buffer, dan XOR. Logika 1 tu diwakili dengan tegangan sekitar 3,3-5V sedangkan logika 0 tu diwakili dengan tegangan 0-1,8V (coba aja cari di datasheetnya ic jenis 74LS/HC atw 54HC). Tu sedikit info yang bisa aku berikan, kalo salah dibenerin ya? A|J|I|I|E [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Halo Rekan2 Senior, Saya baru dibidang electronic, mau tanya TTL itu apa ? Kalau ada alat punya outputnya TTL maksudnya berupa apa itu ya ? Tolong penjelasanannya. terima kasih banyak Ajie From: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of a1210n Sent: Monday, 14 May 2007 9:04 AM To: Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Elektronik-a] Re: tanya rangkaian dgn IC seri 74 iya betull seri 74 mmang jenis TTL. bisa share gambar rangkaiannya? thx ion --- In Elektronik-a@yahoogroups.com, Yoanes Ansraman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: kalo IC seri 74 tuh banyak fren.seri ini hanya menandakan jenis ic ini termasuk type TTL sedangkan type lain berseri 40xx termasuk type CMOS. a1210n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: selamat malam, adakah yg punya gambar rangkaian sederhana dgn IC seri 74. rangkaian yg biasa digunakan dlm kehidupan sehari-hari. dulu waktu sekolah pernah liat ada bukunya. klo gak salah berjudul '303 rangkaian elektronika', dll klo ada, pls share ya. thx ion - Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.
Re: [Elektronik-a] portal ic
Well, kalo untuk persamaan coba aja anda cari di situs² datasheet produk(seperti www.alldatasheet.com dan sebagainya), lalu cari deskripsi komponen yang sama dengan komponen yang anda cari. Good luck! Sudarwanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, Dimana ya saya bisa temukan portal or web dimana saya bisa dapatkan persamaan komponen elektrotronik terutama IC dan transistor. Terima kasih sebelumnya. BR, Sudarwanto - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
Re: [Elektronik-a] crystal oscillator
Aduh, ko aneh gtu ya bunyinya... coba aja kalo disurabaya cari di Eltech Electronic, dulu si saya pernah cari yang mendekati nilai itu. Good Luck, Rick trogalko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ada yg tau info toko yg jual crystal 4.096 Mhz dan 16.384 Mhz? Udah nyari di bandung ga nemu, mungkin Anda yg tinggal di Jakarta,Sby,ato lainnya bisa berbagi informasi. Terima kasih. best regards, Tri - Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
[sqlalchemy] Re: sequences skipping and reporting incorrectly
I don't need to do anything between. Our use of transactions is simple-- almost always a single-operation happens per flush. I looked at after_insert, but am not exactly sure how that can help me. Do I need to define something so that it retrieves the record from the database? (I looked for documentation and examples, but info seems to be pretty sparse on this subject.) BTW, is the double-increment a known problem and is it, perhaps, fixed in the latest rev? (Or am I doing something wrong that is causing this problem...?) Thanks, Rick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sqlalchemy group. To post to this group, send email to sqlalchemy@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sqlalchemy?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sqlalchemy] Re: sequences skipping and reporting incorrectly
Thank you much! You hit the nail on the head with your observation about the bldcmdid not being a primary key. I verified that an identical operation worked 100% correctly on a table where the primary key was also a serial type. I needed the combination of a few keys to be unique. I naively used a PRIMARY KEY(cmdname, cmdvers) constraint to enforce uniqueness. After reading your reply, I changed to PRIMARY KEY(buildcmdid) and applied a UNIQUE(cmdname, cmdvers) constraint. Everything is now working like it should. I appreciate your patience with what was obviously a DB-newbie mistake and not an SA problem. Thanks again, Rick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sqlalchemy group. To post to this group, send email to sqlalchemy@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sqlalchemy?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [Fink-users] OS X 10.3 Compile OpenLDAP errors
Hi Martin, Thanks for responding!! I was wondering where that file was hiding Here's the contents.. /* * Copyright 1998-2003 The OpenLDAP Foundation * COPYING RESTRICTIONS APPLY. See COPYRIGHT file in top level directory * of this package for details. */ static const char copyright[] = Copyright 1998-2003 The OpenLDAP Foundation\n COPYING RESTRICTIONS APPLY\n; static const char __Version[] = @(#) $OpenLDAP: liblutil.a 2.1.22 ( __DATE__ __TIME__ ) $\n [EMAIL PROTECTED] kristyandrick.com stmarksingles.com www.kofc12956.org www.kristyandrick.com www.stmarksingles.com macweb.bedrock.com noceweb.bedrock.com noceweb.homeunix.net:/sw/src/fink.build/openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25/ openldap-2.1.22/libraries/liblutil\n; - A little background.. I host a few websites from this server... hence all of the domain names there.. Should I trim some of those host names out of the version.c file?? Thanks again!! Rick On Aug 21, 2006, at 2:36 AM, Martin Costabel wrote: Waller Rick S wrote: Hi, I am getting consistent errors while fink is trying to compile the OpenLDAP application. Has anyone seen this error or know what it is upset about?? I can't seem to get past this point at all... cc -g -O2 -I../../include-I../../include -I/sw/include/ db4 - DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/db4 - DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/ sw/include -c -o version.o version.c version.c:11:61: missing terminating character version.c:12: error: parse error before kristyandrick version.c:19:54: too many decimal points in number version.c:19:73: too many decimal points in number version.c:19: error: stray '\' in program version.c:19:100: missing terminating character Well, it seems pretty clear that it is upset about that file 'version.c'. This is a created file, and it would be interesting to see how it looks like in your case. It probably sits in the directory /sw/src/fink.build/openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25/openldap-2.1.22/libraries/ liblutil -- Martin - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Fink-users mailing list Fink-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-users
[Fink-users] OS X 10.3 Compile OpenLDAP errors
Hi,
I am getting consistent errors while fink is trying to compile the
OpenLDAP application.
Has anyone seen this error or know what it is upset about?? I can't
seem to get past this point at all...
cc -g -O2 -I../../include-I../../include -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/db4 -DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/
sw/include -c -o version.o version.c
version.c:11:61: missing terminating character
version.c:12: error: parse error before kristyandrick
version.c:19:54: too many decimal points in number
version.c:19:73: too many decimal points in number
version.c:19: error: stray '\' in program
version.c:19:100: missing terminating character
make[2]: *** [version.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-common] Error 1
make: *** [all-common] Error 1
### execution of make failed, exit code 2
Removing build lock...
/sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -r fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25
(Reading database ... 7389 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 ...
Failed: phase compiling: openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 failed
Thanks so much for your assistance in advance!!
Rick
Screen capture below:
Setting build lock...
/sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -i /sw/src/fink.build/fink-buildlock-openldap-
ssl-2.1.22-25_2006.08.20-13.29.59_darwin-powerpc.deb
Selecting previously deselected package fink-buildlock-openldap-
ssl-2.1.22-25.
(Reading database ... 7388 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 (from .../fink-
buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25_2006.08.20-13.29.59_darwin-
powerpc.deb) ...
Setting up fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25
(2006.08.20-13.29.59) ...
gzip -dc /sw/src/openldap-2.1.22.tgz | /sw/bin/tar -xf - --no-same-
owner --no-same-permissions
patch -p1 /sw/fink/dists/stable/crypto/finkinfo/openldap-ssl.patch
patching file build/ltmain.sh
patching file build/top.mk
patching file include/ldap.h
patching file libraries/libldap/Makefile.in
patching file libraries/libldap/ntlm.c
patching file libraries/libldap_r/Makefile.in
./configure --prefix=/sw --libexecdir=/sw/sbin --mandir=/sw/share/man
--infodir=/sw/share/info/openldap-ssl --with-cyrus-sasl
Copyright 1998-2003 The OpenLDAP Foundation, All Rights Reserved.
Restrictions apply, see COPYRIGHT and LICENSE files.
Configuring OpenLDAP 2.1.22-Release ...
checking host system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking target system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking build system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for mawk... no
checking for gawk... no
checking for nawk... no
checking for awk... awk
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes
checking for working aclocal... found
checking for working autoconf... found
checking for working automake... found
checking for working autoheader... found
checking for working makeinfo... found
checking for gnutar... gnutar
checking configure arguments... done
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking for cc... cc
checking for ar... ar
checking for Cygwin environment... no
checking for mingw32 environment... no
checking for EMX OS/2 environment... no
checking how to run the C preprocessor... cc -E
checking for gcc... (cached) cc
checking whether the C compiler (cc -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (cc -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether cc accepts -g... yes
checking for ld used by GCC... /usr/bin/ld
checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... no
checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
checking for BSD-compatible nm... /usr/bin/nm -p
checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /usr/bin/sed
checking whether ln -s works... yes
checking how to recognise dependent libraries... file_magic Mach-O
dynamically linked shared library
checking for object suffix... o
checking for executable suffix... no
checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -p output... ok
checking for dlfcn.h... yes
checking for ranlib... ranlib
checking for strip... strip
checking for objdir... .libs
checking for cc option to produce PIC... -fno-common
checking if cc PIC flag -fno-common works... yes
checking if cc static flag -static works... no
checking if cc supports -c -o file.o... yes
checking if cc supports -c -o file.lo... yes
checking if cc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... yes
checking whether the linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared
libraries... yes
checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... unsupported
checking whether stripping libraries is possible... no
checking dynamic linker characteristics... darwin7.9.0 dyld
checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build static libraries... yes
[Fink-users] OS X 10.3 Compile OpenLDAP errors
Hi,
I am getting consistent errors while fink is trying to compile the
OpenLDAP application.
Has anyone seen this error or know what it is upset about?? I can't
seem to get past this point at all...
cc -g -O2 -I../../include-I../../include -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include -I/sw/include/db4 -DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/
sw/include -c -o version.o version.c
version.c:11:61: missing terminating character
version.c:12: error: parse error before kristyandrick
version.c:19:54: too many decimal points in number
version.c:19:73: too many decimal points in number
version.c:19: error: stray '\' in program
version.c:19:100: missing terminating character
make[2]: *** [version.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-common] Error 1
make: *** [all-common] Error 1
### execution of make failed, exit code 2
Removing build lock...
/sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -r fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25
(Reading database ... 7389 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 ...
Failed: phase compiling: openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 failed
Thanks so much for your assistance in advance!!
Rick
Screen capture below:
Setting build lock...
/sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait -i /sw/src/fink.build/fink-buildlock-openldap-
ssl-2.1.22-25_2006.08.20-13.29.59_darwin-powerpc.deb
Selecting previously deselected package fink-buildlock-openldap-
ssl-2.1.22-25.
(Reading database ... 7388 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25 (from .../fink-
buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25_2006.08.20-13.29.59_darwin-
powerpc.deb) ...
Setting up fink-buildlock-openldap-ssl-2.1.22-25
(2006.08.20-13.29.59) ...
gzip -dc /sw/src/openldap-2.1.22.tgz | /sw/bin/tar -xf - --no-same-
owner --no-same-permissions
patch -p1 /sw/fink/dists/stable/crypto/finkinfo/openldap-ssl.patch
patching file build/ltmain.sh
patching file build/top.mk
patching file include/ldap.h
patching file libraries/libldap/Makefile.in
patching file libraries/libldap/ntlm.c
patching file libraries/libldap_r/Makefile.in
./configure --prefix=/sw --libexecdir=/sw/sbin --mandir=/sw/share/man
--infodir=/sw/share/info/openldap-ssl --with-cyrus-sasl
Copyright 1998-2003 The OpenLDAP Foundation, All Rights Reserved.
Restrictions apply, see COPYRIGHT and LICENSE files.
Configuring OpenLDAP 2.1.22-Release ...
checking host system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking target system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking build system type... powerpc-apple-darwin7.9.0
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for mawk... no
checking for gawk... no
checking for nawk... no
checking for awk... awk
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes
checking for working aclocal... found
checking for working autoconf... found
checking for working automake... found
checking for working autoheader... found
checking for working makeinfo... found
checking for gnutar... gnutar
checking configure arguments... done
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking for cc... cc
checking for ar... ar
checking for Cygwin environment... no
checking for mingw32 environment... no
checking for EMX OS/2 environment... no
checking how to run the C preprocessor... cc -E
checking for gcc... (cached) cc
checking whether the C compiler (cc -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (cc -I/sw/include/db4 -
DBIND_8_COMPAT -I/sw/include ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether cc accepts -g... yes
checking for ld used by GCC... /usr/bin/ld
checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... no
checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
checking for BSD-compatible nm... /usr/bin/nm -p
checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /usr/bin/sed
checking whether ln -s works... yes
checking how to recognise dependent libraries... file_magic Mach-O
dynamically linked shared library
checking for object suffix... o
checking for executable suffix... no
checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -p output... ok
checking for dlfcn.h... yes
checking for ranlib... ranlib
checking for strip... strip
checking for objdir... .libs
checking for cc option to produce PIC... -fno-common
checking if cc PIC flag -fno-common works... yes
checking if cc static flag -static works... no
checking if cc supports -c -o file.o... yes
checking if cc supports -c -o file.lo... yes
checking if cc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... yes
checking whether the linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared
libraries... yes
checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... unsupported
checking whether stripping libraries is possible... no
checking dynamic linker characteristics... darwin7.9.0 dyld
checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build static libraries... yes
[UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] FEATUREQUERY to find where a line and polygon intersect
I am using the Mapserver CGI. My goal is to determine all the polygons in LAYER_A that a line passes through. Currently, I have an application that will successfully return the polygon(s) that a specific point is in (using MODE=NQUERY). Now I want to take it to the next step and use a multi-segment line instead of a single point. I have been trying to do this using the FEATUREQUERY and FEATURENQUERY modes that use an SLAYER (Type POLYGON) with a single FEATURE object that contains the points that make up the line (arranged as a closed polygon). I haven't been having much luck getting the FEATUREQUERY to work though. Before I spend more time with this, can anyone tell me if I am heading down the right path? Is there an easier way?
Outbound Mail Routing through an ISP
I have an exchange 2000 server at home that I use to practice with. Since I am using a
residential ISP a lot of the email I send gets blocked at the recipients gateways
because they use a service that lists me as a residential IP.
I have done some research and found some information on smart hosts. I have tried to
configure my server to use the smart host and provided my credentials that I use for
my ISP's smtp server. However, when I send email I get no errors from the SMTP server
but after a while I get and NDR. It appears that the messages get queue, but it can't
send it out to this server.
I tried a couple online email services and they had similar problems. Does anyone know
of an ISP or email provider with a SMTP gateway that will accept the smart host
connections from my Exchange server. This way my outbound email won't get blocked?
Also is there a better way of forwarding mail out through an ISP.
My server is Windows 2000 SP2 Running Exchange 2000 SP2
Thanks for any help.
-Rick
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You got cable? You need this ...
The next big thing for digital cable users? Find out more .. If you don't want any more emails from us, go here
Re: [PHP-WIN] Make file.php look like file.htm ???
Hello, I was interested in producing a link that looked like www.index.htm instead of www.index.php this would hide the use of dynamic HTML. My goal is to enhance security. Your insight on this is appreciated. Thanks, Rick S. Alain Samoun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... It's always transparent for the 'average user' since that you mainly send him HTML code anyway... For the ones who look carefully at your address extension, it should not bother them to see .php as you see it more and more in URLs (close to 7 millions at the last count I believe). Anyway, I know how to change a php extension for Apache in the httpd.conf, but I believe that if you use html, then all your html will be parsed by php... Is that what you want? Alain On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:21:23AM -0400, Rick S wrote: Hello, Anyone know how to make the URL look like a basic HTML link? I would like PHP to be transparent to the user and not displaying the .php extention in the browser's address window. Is there a way to do this? Thanks, Rick S. -- PHP Windows Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Windows Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP-WIN] Make file.php look like file.htm ???
Hello, Anyone know how to make the URL look like a basic HTML link? I would like PHP to be transparent to the user and not displaying the .php extention in the browser's address window. Is there a way to do this? Thanks, Rick S. -- PHP Windows Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPORRS: BNSF Rainbow
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Bottom line: enjoy this rainbow of liveries while it lasts, because when Krebs and the boys finally decide on some kind of image, the scene's gonna change real fast. David R. Busse Diamond Bar, Calif. Well said Dave, my thoughts exactly. Problem is, everyone gives me a hard time 'cause I think that way. 'Specially another Dave we know. :) Rick Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Zommies Unite
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ When out railfanning, I use my Canon EOS 80-200 f2.8L and a Tokina Pro 28-70 f2.6-2.8 and a Tamron 2X teleconverter. That basically covers from 28 mm to 400 mm, easily usable in most situations. As soon as money permits, I will upgrade to the EOS 70-200 f2.8L USM and the 28-70 f2.8L , plus the Canon 2X. I occasionally have a need for wider than 28 mm, but not enough to justify the expenditure, yet. Rick Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Lens Repair
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Not to be nitpicking, why would you want to repair a zoom lens? Throw it in the garbage can. Fixed focal length lenses will be sharper than zoom lenses. Ask any of my instructors at Foothill College and they will sing the perils of zooms lenses for you. When you blow a slide/negative up to 8x10 and 11x14, the loss of sharpness of a zoom will show! Sorry, but its the truth. ; - ) Sam Reeves I have to disagree here. Although with most older equipment, this may very well be true, the newer zooms, especially from Nikon and Canon are razor sharp at all focal lengths. I can vouch for this with the Canon EOS 80-200 f2.8L Lens I own, and this is even now the obsolete version of the lens in Canon's line. The L series lenses (zooms) have special glass that not only increase color saturation (contrast) but allows for extremely sharp, aspherically corrected images, which make sure that the blue, green, and red wavelengths of light all focus on the film plane at the right place, which enhances sharpness as well. I note from a visit to your web site that you also show a disregard for the newer equipment altogether. Just a note. Even though I own a Canon EOS-1, and EOS-1n and autofocus lenses, I seldom auto-anything. I use a Minolta Flashmeter IV for incident light meter readings, and about 60% of the time, I manually focus my shots. However, it is extremely nice to have that supersmart camera, with the lightning fast autofocus available when I need it. One other note about zooms. For those of us who hate dragging around a bag full of lenses every where we go, zoom lenses are a blessing. Many time when hiking to locations I have never been, you do not know which lenses to include in your bag, thus, either you carry all of your lenses, or you risk missing the best possible composition of a shot when you only take a few. I can take two lenses, (an 80-200, and a 28-70), and I have covered virtually the entire range of shots that I would compose. Granted, zooms are not for everyone, but for a lot of us, it makes life much easier. Besides, there very well may be a money issue as well. To effectively cover the 80-200 range, I would have to buy at least 5 lenses, an 85, 105, 135, and 200. Not very cost effective, is it. I can't see where chucking zoom lenses are of any great benefit, especially to those who have become accustomed to using them. RIck Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
SPORRS: Re: SPORRS; Lens repair
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ I also really like Kodachrome 200. Here's one I agree on also, when I don't have my other films available. K200 is the only Kodachrome I will use. K64 always seems to cyanish to me, and K25 is just too slow for me to work with. I routinely push ISO 100 film to EI 160, (a long story why only 2/3rds of a stop), in fact this is the way I have been doing all of my E6 film for about 3 years now. Kodachrome 200 has a lot of grain, but its extreme sharpness seems to hide the grain to a certain degree. And when it is extremely noticeable, it seems to add some character to the image, kind of like what Tri-X BW films used to do for me. Rick Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Lens Repair
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ A case could be made for zoom lenses and digital press publishing. You can correct for the loss of sharpness in Photoshop®. First, you must realize that you cannot correct for loss of sharpness in Photoshop. When you sharpen images in Photoshop, you are adjusting contrast in adjacent pixels, giving the perception of increased sharpness, while actually degrading the overall image. There is no real way to sharpen images. This is kind of besides the point though. Although the digitial world is interesting, and has its place, my comments were not made with digital imaging in mind. However the real test of how good is your zoom lens is when you blow it up on actual photographic paper, (i.e. 8x10 or 11x14 for 35mm). Okay, how many of you have blown up your slides and negatives to see if your zoom lens is sharp? I have 4 16x20 full frame prints in my office, that considering the 16x20 size is larger than recommended for 35 mm film and that they are third generation (35 mm film, 4x5 internegative, and 16x20 print), their sharpness is excellent. (to make a long story short, I use internegs instead of Cibachromes, because I have maintained ties with my former employer, and benefit from very low costs as a result, and they cannot make Cibachormes, er, IlfoChromes). Two of these shots were taken with a 2x teleconverter as well, with very good results. Before I became a light rail consultant, I worked at a custom processing shop and studio for nearly 10 years. I have some decent experience, and I am certain what I have is proof in the pudding. This is not to say that every image I shoot is razor sharp, it is not. Some of my favorite images are not perfectly sharp. It is also not to say that what I have experienced with my lenses is reflective of everyone else. It is not. But I can say with a great deal of certainty, and obviously with support from many individuals, is that the quality and sharpness of today's zoom lenses from the major manufacturers is excellent. Rick Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Gregs Resend
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ I liked Rick Newton's BNSF pumpkin shot at dusk. Although it was almost a roster shot, he got excellent results with so little light. What did I tell you, Rick? :) Dave Cohen Yeah, Yeah, grumble, grumble. :-^) Rick ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
SPORRS: Gregs Resend
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Hi Greg, I have a few comments about shooting pix, about what really drives me to get excited about RR images. BTW, I have to throw this little segment in first, though. Dave and I shot a train today!! Yipee! Hoorah! Except for my last business trip to Utah, I hadn't shot a train in 3 months. And our first shot of the afternoon was our buddy Dan S leading a coal train into the plant at Labadie. Shot a couple of others, then we knew it was over when we headed for the Lion's Choice (at least it wasn't Hardee's) and Dave said as soon as we get in line, a train will go by in the nice AHHRAANGEE sun. Soon as we pulled up to the window, UP train went wizzing by at Allenton. Oh well. Anyhow, thanks for your comments on my shots. Those late evening shots are really cool. I have a hard time convinving Dave to stay out long enough to shoot them anymore, but I really like them. One thing I like to show when shooting pix, is to emphasize the drama of railoading, to enhance the picture to beyond just an image of a train. There are a few ways to do that, one is the early morning or late evening light. Another way is the in your face variety of an image. All though its not quite in your face, the inclusion of the power plant behind the coal train or the Sioux picture enhances the picture beyond your typical shot, it gives some substance to the coal train out in the middle of the floodplains, and it brings the train into an environment, an identifiable scene. And one of my favorite ways is to show what obstacles the train has working against it. Snow, mountains, the train itself winding around S-curves or loops. Something that dramatizes or paints a picture, something that sticks in your mind. When shooting wide-angle, be sure and include objects in the scene, that add interest, add to the depth of the scene. One perfect example is yesterday before I hooked up with Dave, I shot a wide-angle shot of a BNSF train at Clarksville on the K-Line, right along the river, with a big tugboat right next to him. Can't wait to see how that comes out. Many times, we all hop out of the car, and take a grab shot, just focusing out attention on the train. But always keep in the back of your mind where you are. Know your surroundings and take advantage of them. Although the second time out to Soldier Summit I had an idea of the area much better than the first, all the trains I shot were on a chase basis. However, I maintained some semblance of my surroundings, and what I wanted in my pictures, and made all my stops and shots according to those criteria. The Smelter shot, I saw that early on my first trip and knew that was a good shot. But the opportunity to shoot there didn't happen until late that evening, and as I was getting close and knowing the sun angle, I knew it would be a perfect shot, and I made sure thay I was in the correct position. Shooting RR images can be much more than just going to the trains and shooting, its creating scenes with the area you are in. Rick ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re:SPORRS: Kansas City ?
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ I have done very littel shooting in K.C. myself, but I have many friends who have bookloads of beautiful shots from the area. Besides, how could you go wrong with the second largest railcenter in the U.S. :) Rick Newton St. Charles MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Getting together
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Hi Dana, I checked out the site, but had a hard time telling what pictures were where. You ought to consider putting some type of caption on them to at least identify the location. The road that I had intended on following to the loop was from the south side of the loops, off of Pilot Road to Montello. I probably would have gone, but I went to find someone to help a fellow who hit a rock that, ironically enough, had been dug up by a road grader working the area, and crashed into a ditch. He wanted me to drive him back to Montello, but a 30 mile bouncing dirt ride in the 2 wheel rental was enough to scare me off. I went and found him some help though, hopefully everything turned out O.K. After that, I was very reluctant to push forward up to the loops with the rental, even though I had my trusty laptop with the Delorme Street Atlas on it. Hopefully, more business trips out to Salt Lake will allow me some more time to explore the area. I actually had planned to go down to Shafter, but for some reason I didn't. They were running some trains on the BHP Nevada Railroad, however, they were at the south end. Guess they have a repeater radio, 'cause I could here them quite clearly from I-80. Rick St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
SPORRS: Film Question
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Hi Greg, Although I've been shooting a lot of Kodak Elite II lately, because of cost, Provia is my first choice for film. In earlier years, Fuji's Pro films, and consumer films, had different emulsions and bases. I believe (I may be wrong here), but when the Sensia was first introduced, that for the first time, The Pro and consumer versions had the same emulsions. As far as the base, I am not sure. Dave C. convinced me to give Sensia a whirl, and the results were very good. Very difficult if not impossible to tell a difference between the Provia and Sensia. I was in a hurry when I bought my last batch of film, and ended up with Sensia II for my Utah, NV trip, so I guess we will see what happens. I have never tried the Astia, but Dave insists that I give it a go, because I seem to underexpose my film by about 1/3 to 1/4 stop, and it increases the contrast, aloing with my pushing habits. He says my pix are very contrasty, so I will have to give it a try. In a nutshell though, I have had very good results with the original Sensia. Rick Newton St. Charles, MO ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
Re: SPORRS: Getting together
ÿÿ- This is The 'SPORRS' Mailing List - Info File: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/infosporrs.htm - Note: Remember to include your name in each list post or reply. - Please delete all unnecessary quoted text from the original message! ÿÿ Well, Baring is also a favorite haunt of mine, every time I go there, the trains won't let me leave. The shot of the Amtrak train of mine of #4 on the SPORRS site is there off the Hwy 15 overpass looking west. I have also spent a lot of time at Rutledge, so much so, that I think I have over shot it. I used to make a habit of being there at exactly 4:00 pm, and the Q-NYLA would be there almost everytime within a couple of minutes. Even though it has been a while since I have visited it all, I have pretty much covered the readily accesible shots from Ethel to Wyaconda. I am sure there are a lot more shots to have, especially with a short hike, but hiking hasn't been on my list much lately, too lazy I guess. As far as my west shots go, I did O.K. I did make an effort to get to Arnold's Loop, however, I was a little afraid to take the 2 wheel rental car back in there. I shot a couple of really cool shots of an eastbound coming off the bottom of the loop from the highway, with Pilot Peak in the background. Got a couple good shots at Elburz, NV, Aragonite, UT, and Knolls, UT, but the trains were not cooperating. I had a fairly good day in the snow on Soldier Summit the prior Saturday. I would really like to get out there again, and if my company wins the P.E. work for the West-East light rail line in Salt Lake, I will get the opportunity. I would like to do some shooting in Southern Idaho, and some more in western Wyoming as well. Of course, I always get a kick out of the Echo Canyon and Weber Canyon areas as well. If I get brave, I might even consider shooting Donner Pass. Salt Lake has a lot of neat stuff around it, but I haven't really shot anything in Salt Lake proper. Maybe next trip out. Rick ÿÿ- SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved ÿÿ
RE: SPORRS: Presenting on the computer
Message text written by Jeffrey Dobek Since there are three of us in the STL area who at least have an interest in this, perhaps we could collaborate on testing this out? I have the tools to actually build the show, add music, burn to CD-Rom. I don't have time to get into scanning right now, but if one or both of you wanted to come up with the content and plan out how it should go. Just a thought. A good thought, perhaps. I haven't read all the messages about this yet so I am not sure of the total reaction yet, but I'm definitely willing to give it a try. Problem is, I have a time problem factor here, there is never enough hours in the day. So, let me know, and I will see if I can manage to dig up some time. Rick St. Charles, MO - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
Re: SPORRS: Presenting on the computer
Message text written by Mike Gardner All these experiments are fun to contemplate (I guess) but they divert funds and time away from what I value most: railroading and photography. Time I can see as a problem, but money is not. I have no inspirtion to be purchasing any of the gear I do not already own, but renting some stuff for a evening or two wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm all for tradition. So am I. Even though I usually won't admit it, I am very difficult to introduce new methods to, even though I am somewhat of a technology nut. I have an older second Leica projector with bright light and a dead sharp lens, a carriage system that keeps each slide in perfect alignment, regardless of mount, a high quality screen, and Kodachrome. I have less than 500 bucks in the whole thing and quality is superb and the technology simple. I talk at shows and could even hum a little something. Trust me, I have a lot of faith in the traditional system. In fact one of my biggest complaints is that by using digital image techniques, we truly lose how good a photographer is. Was his exposure correct, was his focus on, how was his composition, etc,etc, all because of digital manipulation. Granted, to a certain degree, alterations can be made to image with non-electronic means, but its not what I am driving at. Why do we keep trying to make things harder and more complicated. Each new bright idea raises everybody's expectations and then next year the technology has improved and you reinvent the wheel all over again. Well, at least in my eyes, thats really not what I am trying to accomplish here. Sometimes a little variety helps break the monotony, make something a little more interesting, brings a fresh face to the dance. Keep in mind, if we're all at it long enough, it WILL become normal. Jeez, I wish somebody hadn't already taken the name Grumpy. ;-) Mike Gardner Grumpy Jr? Rick Newton St. Charles, MO --- Somewhere high above the Floodplains (in the middle of I-70) - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
Re: SPORRS: Winter Railfanning
Thanks for the tips. One thing I don't forsee doing is shooting in -40F! You never know though, I would love to get up to Montana, and remember reports of temperatures falling inot the -30F range a couple of winters ago. You guys don't still play hockey when it gets THAT cold, do you? RIck Newton St. Charles, MO --- Somewhere high above the Flooplains (north of the Missouri and west of the Mississippi) - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
Re: SPORRS: Presenting on the computer
and I think that music might just get in my way, or at least distract me. Or keep some of us awake. :) Keep myself awake too! :-^) T.V. converters, but Dave claims his T.V. doesn't work, so. But it's a nice looking piece of furniture I keep my dust on it now when I'm not using it elsewhere in the house. Can I borrow some? One of these days I am going to get a 30 inch (at least) display monitor, and we will do just that. I saw some in the Gateway 2000 catalog, for example, but the screen res isn't up to the sizes I like yet. Give it another six months. And another couple of thousand dollars. I'll have to check. I might be able to rent one through work for a reasonable cost. Reasonable however means that I won't be the only one doing an electronic presentation. Rick Newton St. Charles, MO --- Somewhere high above the Floodplains (not high enough though) - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
Re: SPORRS: Silliness!
I take train pictures with a couple of sometimes conflicting motives in mind. One is to produce pleasing, well composed photographs that happen to include trains in them, and the other is to document the trains themselves. Well sounds like mighty good motives to me. A pretty good reason to be on this list I'd say. But I do disagree with conflciting. How about pleasing, well composed roster shots? I have to envy the serious photographers, the I am NOT a railfan types who can divorce themselves from any interest in trains, and who photograph them merely because they are challenging subject matter. Don't be envious. I am a serious photographer with the same goals. I am out shooting to have fun, enjoy trains, record history, and create pleasing photographs. There are a few of us who shoot trains for the challenge, but I have a very large interest in trains still, or I wouldn't be out there. I doubt I'll ever get to that point. For your sake, I hope not too. Usually, if there is any interest or potential enjoyment in the task your are trying to complete, you are much more likely to be successful in what you do. I'll continue shoot roster shots until the day my shutter freezes (again). I am not into roster shots, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting them. In fact, it can be an aid in learning composition and good practice in getting good exposures if nothing else. I'll continue to feel just a bit edgy about setting up for a shot in a place where I can't react quickly if something rare or unusual happens by. Trust me. I've missed many golden opportunities in my trials. However, due to practice, these occurences happen far less frequently than they used to. And it certainly doesn't hurt to be a somewhat knowledgeable railfan, a plus that those photgraphers just out for the challenge may not have. But I have a bit of serious photographer in me. I think we all do. But what exactly is a serious photographer? What defines that label? Where is the threshold? I think the term serious photographer may be a hair vague. I'm not great, but I'm learning, and as a subscriber to this list I've picked up ideas on how to get better. Well, I think that is the whole jist of what this list is about, and I think that if its purpose is working, and making someone a better photographer, we should all be happy campers. And I'll continue to lurk as long as Mr. Cohen will let me. As well as I know Dave, and as grumpy as he can be, I know he is not out to discourage people from bettering themselves, and the hobby. I think your position is safe. I have a feeling I'm not alone in this. I have a feeling you are correct. Rick Newton Serious Photographer, Rail Consultant, and Railfan - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
SPORRS: Web Images
Rick Newton's UP 9183 and his SP shot at Tennessee Pass (both verticals) are compositions which I like a lot, but I don't like the reddish color of the Kodak E-6 films that he used. Well Dave, I'm glad you like those shots, 'cause so do I. I liked the Utah location so much in fact, that I damn near missed my flight out of Salt Lake, considering I was about 75 miles away, and a mad dash got me there 10 minutes prior to departure. Vertical shots were not compositionally easy for me to get in the habit of doing, it just wasn't natural. When I forced myself to do it, simply for the fact that I needed some variety, I found that trains linear lines work well in a vertical format, and I was smitten. I almost got to the point I was forcing myself to shoot everything vertically. Although this isn't really a good idea, it allowed me to digest information about composition and when is a good time to shoot vertically and when not to, to acheive the best results. The biggest finding was, that typically, vertical shots do not work well from ground level, but there are exceptions, one being the Echo Canyon shot. Unfortunately time is not on my side right now at work, so I can't get into details of what does work, but of course, we could try and debate what does make a good vertical. One other point I would like to make when it comes to composition. When I started out in rail photography, my main goal was to shoot all kinds of trains. I travelled to different locations, mostly because I couldn't shoot some of the railroads locally. As time went by, my shooting habits became such that the main goal was to shoot a train in its environment. I went to new locations to shoot the scenery that the train was in. In other words, I am shooting a picture of a scene, and there just happens to be a train in the middle of it. Sometimes, in disagreement with Charlie, is that the train is not the focal point of the picture. I find that even non-rail enthusiasts can enjoy my images, because the picture conveys more than just a train. A good example of this is the Tennessee Pass shot, or Marcia Lucas' shot of the work extra up in the Great North. Don't get me wrong, many of my favorite images are extreme telephoto shots, the 'in your face variety, where the focus is very definitely the train. This brings me to one last point about shooting a train in its environs. Trains run in all kinds of weather, and depicting a particular scene may very well be in the middle of a horrendous thunderstorm, fog, night, overcast, hazy, whatever. Because time constraints have become a problem, I find myself going out in less than ideal conditions less and less, something I need to change. One thing I really like about Charlie D.'s photgraphy, is that he will shoot in any conditions. I remember a recent conversation, Hey Rick, I'm thinking about going to Oklahoma this weekend to shoot some Santa Fe, wanna tag along? I said Charlie, its supposed to raining cats and dogs, and the thunderstorms are supposed to be bad. He says, Won't that be cool though, imagine the pictures we'd come back with! I thought about it for a second, and realized he was right. If it wouldn't have been a 400+ mile trip to get to OK and the Santa Fe, and only two days to do it in, I would've gone. And as for the film, I'm always playing around with the different film types. The Minturn shot was on LPZ (Lumiere) and the Utah shot on Kodak Elite II 100 shot at EI160. I like the look of Kodachrome alot, but I seldom used it, because I thought it was always a little flat, and I had to wait a week to get my film back. Both of these films had a look very similar to Kodachrome, although as I discovered later, they both are far too warm. I am back to shooting the more neutral Fuji films almost all of the time now. (When I can shoot) Rick Newton - SPORRS: 'Serious Photographers Of Railroad Related Subjects' - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs/ - Message © 1998 SPORRS® - All Rights Reserved
SPORRS: Copyright infringement
Well, I figure since I live about 10 miles from Dave C., I am the person he will come looking for first if I don't share my views. I am the first to admit, that showing off my images is a real rush for me. Being published in calendars and magazines for substandard pay, or on the Internet for nothing, is not an issue, because I'd be out shooting them anyway. Might as well get a little return on what you have done, right? (Dave and I have had many debates over this). I also take a lot of pride in the images I create, and the uniqueness of my images is part of the good feeling I get sharing my pix with others. Sharing my pictures, or having them stolen and used without my permission, however, are two very different worlds altogether. I WILL NOT TOLERATE IN ANY WAY, THE UNAUTHORIZED USE OF MY IMAGES! PERIOD! They are mine, I created them. I am more than willing to share them with almost anyone, provided they have my permission, which usually includes a certain amount of input in how they will be displayed. Although I would consider myself a very serious amatuer photographer, or a semi-pro, money is usually not an issue to use one of my images. For the sake of everyone, just ask, and ye' shall receive (most of the time, anyway), OK? Rick Newton att: Dave C. Even though Mr. Gardner doesn't think you speak for everyone, you certainly do speak for the majority of us. Thank you. BTW, in the case of Mr. Gardner's youth, he is older than we are g - SPORRS: Serious Photographers of Railroad Related Subjects - Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs
SPORRS: Focus on this
Well, I better stick my nose in here. When using the EOS-1n, you can set the Quick Control Dial to set the autofocus point you wish to use dynamically, thus making quite sure you know which point you are focusing on. Just wish sometime that they would add some points in a vertical combination. Or, better yet, have some sort of glide or mouse pad that would allow you to select anywhere in the image area. Rick Newton P.S. With a little bit of practice, the EOS-1n rarely misses, and responds very quickly. There is a technique involved, but you can develop a reasonably fool-proof method. - Web Site: http://home.att.net/~acphotog/sporrs/sporrs.htm - SPORRS: Serious Photographers of Railroad Related Subjects X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 Content-Length: 4966
SPORRS: New Amtrak boxcars
10/18/97 , AMTK #6 (running 8 hours late) at Helper, UT with the 71000 and 71010 as the last 2 cars of the consist. Painted in the asforementioned light grey. Rick Newton -- SPORRS: Serious Photographers of Railroad Related Subjects
