Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
But Gilberto,
As Baha'is, we recognize the Firm Handle ("urvat'ul vuthgha") of the Word of God, "the unerring balance." This is not something that can be "solved" outside of that, is it? If that were the case, then why would Baha'u'llah establish unerring proofs? Or am I looking at this from a position of "faith and not reason," again?
BarmakGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/6/05, Sandra Chamberlain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Gilberto: Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. Dear Gilberto, I would agree with you, that there are limitations placed on "membership" - similar restrictions apply if you are buying a condo or joining a golf club. Membership implies a willingness to work within a prescribed framework. Agree also, that there are individu!
als who
self-identify with a particular belief or group. I was a self-identified Baha'i for a period of several months before I was willing/confident enough to make a committment to the organizational framework. It's the choice of the individual to be included or not.In the case of a club, there are often very specific and concreteindicators which clearly identify you as a member (e.g. they don'tcall security when you are on the premises for instance).But in the case of belief systems things are less clear. For example,Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons say they are Christian but they haveSEVERAL beliefs which go against at least some people's definitions ofChristianity. So if you are part of a group with millions of membersbut your claim to a particular identity might not be recognized, whatdoes that mean? Whose definition do you follow?So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that from
yourperspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is rather clear. Butthere are also other people claiming to be Bahai who don't necessarilymeet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are choosing forthem (over their objections) that they are not Bahai.PeaceGIlberto__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew
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Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Gilberto, you wrote: So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that from your perspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is rather clear. But there are also other people claiming to be Bahai who don't necessarily meet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are choosing for them (over their objections) that they are not Bahai. Well, not exactly... Do not distress or deny anyone by saying 'He is not a Bahá'í!' He will be known by his deeds. There are no secrets among Bahá'ís; a Bahá'í does not hide anything. (Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 98) This is the botom line. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
In terms of these three soteriologies, I put together this page of links about a year ago: http://links.religionsnet.com/soteriologies.html Here is a page where I offer my own thoughts on the subject: http://salvation.bahaifaith.info/ This is a posting I made on this subject some time ago: In my view, Baha'i soteriology incorporates elements of universalism, inclusivism, and particularism (exclusivism). However, it is, in my view, primarily inclusivist. I. Universalism (pluralism) I prefer to take a broad view of divine Revelation. As I see it, and I am only expressing my own perspective, folks like Meher Baba and Ramakrishna could be termed inspired seers. I can even accept Meher Baba's claim to be an avatar. However, here, I would take his use of avatar to be merely a nominal designation for what I would call a seer. Moreover, Meher Baba, Ramakrishna, Rev. Moon, Aleister Crowley, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, etc. could, in the context of their own narrative, paradigm, or taxonomy, be regarded as prophets, messiahs, and avatars. In other words, I may or may not accept that person as a seer, admittedly a subjective judgement, but I would acknowledge that the leader, if any, of that religious organization had whatever status she or he or claimed in the context of her or his paradigm. That is my approach both as a sociologist of religion and as a human being. I do not consider `Abdu'l-Baha's seasonal analogy to be evidence He believed that the force of a Revelation could be exhausted. When a person goes from third to fourth grade, the energy of third grade is not depleted. However, just as the child would normally move on (while still benefiting from the knowledge gained in the previous grade), there is a need for further Revelation. Previous divine Revelations can still inspire, and transform, human lives. II. Inclusivism I admire Alvin Reines concept of polydoxy which he develops in, _Polydoxy: Explorations in a Philosophy of Liberal Religion_. Reines, a Reform (Liberal outside the U.S.) Jew, argues that there can be many different, but beneficial, constructions of Judaism. Just as there are various Christianities, Islams, Judaisms, Hinduisms, etc., there are, and should be, a multitude of Baha'i faiths (polydoxy). What unites us as Baha'is, and gives us our shared identity, is not our orthodoxy, our universal acceptance of doctrines, but our orthopraxy, our firmness in the collective center of the Covenant (the Will of God). A Baha'i can, IMO, be heteropraxic but not heterodox. III. Particularism (exclusivism) IMO, the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources implies inclusivism, not particularism or exclusivism. That is because the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources admits the possibility of redemption for those who are not Baha'is. It is difficult to make a similar case, although some have tried, from the texts incorporated into the New Testament. It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed - that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice - for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. -- `Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p.232 Question. - What is the condition of children who die before attaining the age of discretion or before the appointed time of birth? Answer. - These infants are under the shadow of the favor of God; and as they have not committed any sin and are not soiled with the impurities of the world of nature, they are the centers of the manifestation of bounty, and the Eye of Compassion will be turned upon them. -- `Abdu'l-Baha: Some Answered Questions, p.240 ... in a place where the commands of a Prophet are not known, and where the people do not act in conformity with the divine instructions, such as the command of Christ to return good for evil, but act according to the desires of nature - that is, if they torment those who torment them - from the point of view of religion they are excused because the divine command has not been delivered to them. Though they do not deserve mercy and beneficence, nevertheless, God treats them with mercy and forgives them. -- `Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p.267 Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Mistake: I wrote: A Baha'i can, IMO, be heteropraxic but not heterodox. That should have been: A Baha'i can, IMO, be heterodox but not heteropraxic. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
I do not consider `Abdu'l-Baha's seasonal analogy to be evidence He believed that the force of a Revelation could be exhausted. When a person goes from third to fourth grade, the energy of third grade is not depleted. However, just as the child would normally move on (while still benefiting from the knowledge gained in the previous grade), there is a need for further Revelation. Previous divine Revelations can still inspire, and transform, human lives. Well, put Mark. I use this explanation to teach Christians and Muslims. Just as there are various Christianities, Islams, Judaisms, Hinduisms, etc., there are, and should be, a multitude of Baha'i faiths (polydoxy). What unites us as Baha'is, and gives us our shared identity, is not our orthodoxy, our universal acceptance of doctrines, but our orthopraxy, our firmness in the collective center of the Covenant (the Will of God). A Baha'i can, IMO, be heteropraxic but not heterodox. This is also agreeable; otherwise the oft-repeated statement regarding the clash of differing views would have no relevance in my view. III. Particularism (exclusivism) IMO, the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources implies inclusivism, not particularism or exclusivism. That is because the particularity of the Baha'i primary sources admits the possibility of redemption for those who are not Baha'is. It is difficult to make a similar case, although some have tried, from the texts incorporated into the New Testament. Excellent explanation with perfectly matching supportive quotation in this section. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Richard, At 03:52 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote: Excellent explanation with perfectly matching supportive quotation in this section. I had forgotten that I revised (slightly) this message and placed it on the web: http://bahaistudies.net/soteriology.html Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
On 5/6/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just as there are various Christianities, Islams, Judaisms, Hinduisms, etc., there are, and should be, a multitude of Baha'i faiths (polydoxy). What unites us as Baha'is, and gives us our shared identity, is not our orthodoxy, our universal acceptance of doctrines, but our orthopraxy, our firmness in the collective center of the Covenant (the Will of God). A Baha'i can, IMO, be heteropraxic but not heterodox. [And then Mark sent out an email saying that the last two terms (heteropraxic and heterodox should be switched] Gilberto: Is that really how the Bahai faith fits into the above framework? It seems more like a particular understanding of Bahai orthodoxy? The analogy which comes to mind is that what you said sounds like a Christian saying Of course, there are many different Christianities which are possible... as long as they accept the authority of the bishop of Rome and everything that implies. By definition that excludes Protestants. And your definition of Bahai excludes Orthodox Bahais. Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. Peace pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Hi, Gilberto, At 05:25 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote: Is that really how the Bahai faith fits into the above framework? It seems more like a particular understanding of Bahai orthodoxy? The analogy which comes to mind is that what you said sounds like a Christian saying Of course, there are many different Christianities which are possible... as long as they accept the authority of the bishop of Rome and everything that implies. As a Baha'i, I would say that these different Baha'i faiths need to operate in the context of the Baha'i Covenant. However, as a sociologist of religion, I would impose no such limitation. I disagree that I am proposing a Baha'i orthodoxy. It would be more accurate to say that I am advocating Baha'i polydoxy or multidoxy. By definition that excludes Protestants. And your definition of Bahai excludes Orthodox Bahais. My definition, as a Baha'i, would exclude Orthodox Baha'is, not my definition as a sociologist of religion. Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. I don't think I have given any indications of excluding anyone. My messages were written from a sociological, not a Baha'i, standpoint. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Ok. fair enough. -Gilberto On 5/6/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Gilberto, At 05:25 PM 5/6/2005, you wrote: Is that really how the Bahai faith fits into the above framework? It seems more like a particular understanding of Bahai orthodoxy? The analogy which comes to mind is that what you said sounds like a Christian saying Of course, there are many different Christianities which are possible... as long as they accept the authority of the bishop of Rome and everything that implies. As a Baha'i, I would say that these different Baha'i faiths need to operate in the context of the Baha'i Covenant. However, as a sociologist of religion, I would impose no such limitation. I disagree that I am proposing a Baha'i orthodoxy. It would be more accurate to say that I am advocating Baha'i polydoxy or multidoxy. By definition that excludes Protestants. And your definition of Bahai excludes Orthodox Bahais. My definition, as a Baha'i, would exclude Orthodox Baha'is, not my definition as a sociologist of religion. Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. I don't think I have given any indications of excluding anyone. My messages were written from a sociological, not a Baha'i, standpoint. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Gilberto: Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. Dear Gilberto, I would agree with you, that there are limitations placed on membership - similar restrictions apply if you are buying a condo or joining a golf club. Membership implies a willingness to work within a prescribed framework. Agree also, that there are individuals who self-identify with a particular belief or group. I was a self-identified Baha'i for a period of several months before I was willing/confident enough to make a committment to the organizational framework. It's the choice of the individual to be included or not. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Dear Friends, I will now post ONE COMMON FAITH, and Dominus Iesus, two to three pages at a time (daily? ever other day? weekly?), in that order, if that is ok, for our study. I will start with thePreface by the Universal House of Justice; and I will follow it by the Introduction to Dominus Iesus. ~Allah'u'Abha~ This etext is based on: One Common Faith Bahá'í World Centre, Haifa Copyright (c) 2005 by the Universal House of Justice Copyright under the Berne Convention All Rights Reserved Availability of this etext in no way modifies the copyright status of the above publication. This etext is freely available through anonymous internet file-sharing. Foreword At Ridvan 2002, we addressed an open letter to the world's religious leaders. Our action arose out of awareness that the disease of sectarian hatreds, if not decisively checked, threatens harrowing consequences that will leave few areas of the world unaffected. The letter acknowledged with appreciation the achievements of the interfaith movement, to which Baha'is have sought to contribute since an early point in the movement's emergence. Nevertheless, we felt we must be forthright in saying that, if the religious crisis is to be addressed as seriously as is occurring with respect to other prejudices afflicting humankind, organized religion must find within itself a comparable courage to rise above fixed conceptions inherited from a distant past. Above all, we expressed our conviction that the time has come when religious leadership must face honestly and without further evasion the implications of the truth that God is one and that, beyond all diversity of cultural _expression_ and human interpretation, religion is likewise one. It was intimations of this truth that originally inspired the interfaith movement and that have sustained it through the vicissitudes of the past one hundred years. Far from challenging the validity of any of the great revealed faiths, the principle has the capacity to ensure their continuing relevance. In order to exert its influence, however, recognition of this reality must operate at the heart of religious discourse, and it was with this in mind that we felt that our letter should be explicit in articulating it. Response has been encouraging. Baha'i institutions throughout the world ensured that thousands of copies of the document were delivered to influential figures in the major faith communities. While it was perhaps not surprising that the message it contained was dismissed out of hand in a few circles, Baha'is report that, in general, they were warmly welcomed. Particularly affecting has been the obvious sincerity of many recipients' distress over the failure of religious institutions to assist humanity in dealing with challenges whose essential nature is spiritual and moral. Discussions have turned readily to the need for fundamental change in the way the believing masses of humankind relate to one another, and in a significant number of instances, those receiving the letter have been moved to reproduce and distribute it to other clerics in their respective traditions. We feel hopeful that our initiative may serve as a catalyst opening the way to new understanding of religi! on's purpose. However rapidly or slowly this change occurs, the concern of Baha'is must be with their own responsibility in the matter. The task of ensuring that His message is engaged by people everywhere is one that Baha'u'llah has laid primarily on the shoulders of those who have recognized Him. This, of course, has been the work that the Baha'i community has been pursuing throughout the history of the Faith, but the accelerating breakdown in social order calls out desperately for the religious spirit to be freed from the shackles that have so far prevented it from bringing to bear the healing influence of which it is capable. If they are to respond to the need, Baha'is must draw on a deep understanding of the process by which humanity's spiritual life evolves. Baha'u'llah's writings provide insights that can help to elevate discussion of religious issues above sectarian and transient considerations. The responsibility to avail oneself of this spiritual resource is inseparable from ! the gift of faith itself. "Religious fanaticism and hatred", Baha'u'llah warns, "are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench. The Hand of Divine power can, alone, deliver mankind from this desolating affliction" Far from feeling unsupported in their efforts to respond, Baha'is will come increasingly to appreciate that the Cause they serve represents the arrowhead of an awakening taking place among people everywhere, regardless of religious background and indeed among many with no religious leaning. Reflection on the challenge has prompted us to commission the commentary that follows. One Common Faith, prepared under our supervision, reviews relevant passages from both the writings of
RE: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Thank you Barmak Thank you dear Barmak This study is very useful_ in that it focuses our minds on what the recent Message says and the context of 21st Century Christianity in a document penned by its most powerful institution and leader. Our attitude is always to affirm, expand and expound and then take the spiritual journey further. 1] . And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the world (Mt 28:18-20; cf. Lk 24:46-48; Jn 17:18,20,21; Acts 1:8). [the Document Dominus Iesus quotes the Gospel] My humble understanding is that Yes He is with us always but that in relation to His Advent in the Glory of the Father He is calling humanity yet again **Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life We behold you, O children of the Kingdom, in darkness. This, verily, beseemeth you not. Are ye, in the face of the Light, fearful because of your deeds? Direct yourselves towards Him Verily, He [Jesus] said: `Come ye after Me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.' In this day, however, We say: `Come ye after Me, that We may make you to become the quickeners of mankind.' Say, He moreover has written, We, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit [Jesus], and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit [Jesus] verily, standeth before them. Wherefore keep ye afar from Him Who hath purposed to draw you nigh unto a Resplendent Spot? Say: We, in truth, have opened unto you the gates of the Kingdom. Will ye bar the doors of your houses in My face? This indeed is naught but a grievous error. (Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, Page: 106)** 2] the Universal House of Justice document says: ** This, of course, has been the work that the Baha'i community has been pursuing throughout the history of the Faith, but the accelerating breakdown in social order calls out desperately for the religious spirit to be freed from the shackles that have so far prevented it from bringing to bear the healing influence of which it is capable. If they are to respond to the need, Baha'is must draw on a deep understanding of the process by which humanity's spiritual life evolves. Baha'u'llah's writings provide insights that can help to elevate discussion of religious issues above sectarian and transient considerations.** *** If they are to respond to the need, Baha'is must draw on a deep understanding of the process by which humanity's spiritual life evolves.*** This is an area we have to work on. I think Barmak this study and the One Common Faith Document is a start Thank you and God willing others will show interest From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barmak Kusha Sent: 05 May 2005 22:15 To: Baha'i Studies Subject: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1) Dear Friends, I will now post ONE COMMON FAITH, and Dominus Iesus, two to three pages at a time (daily? ever other day? weekly?), in that order, if that is ok, for our study. I will start with thePreface by the Universal House of Justice; and I will follow it by the Introduction to Dominus Iesus. ~Allah'u'Abha~ This etext is based on: One Common Faith Baha'm World Centre, Haifa Copyright (c) 2005 by the Universal House of Justice Copyright under the Berne Convention All Rights Reserved Availability of this etext in no way modifies the copyright status of the above publication. This etext is freely available through anonymous internet file-sharing. Foreword At Ridvan 2002, we addressed an open letter to the world's religious leaders. Our action arose out of awareness that the disease of sectarian hatreds, if not decisively checked, threatens harrowing consequences that will leave few areas of the world unaffected. The letter acknowledged with appreciation the achievements of the interfaith movement, to which Baha'is have sought to contribute since an early point in the movement's emergence. Nevertheless, we felt we must be forthright in saying that, if the religious crisis is to be addressed as seriously as is occurring with respect to other prejudices afflicting humankind, organized religion must find within itself a comparable courage to rise above fixed conceptions inherited from a distant past. Above all, we
