Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-April/111588.html Michael or Penny Novack wrote: > I don't think you are picturing what I meant by both ways. Yes, it is very clear but given my experience with other financial software I don't agree endlessly dividing the COAs into unknown future categories is a useful approach. Multidimensional accounting is a method of organizing financial data that goes beyond the traditional chart of accounts. It involves using dimensions, such as departments, locations, or projects, to categorize transactions and provide more detailed and operationally relevant reporting. This approach eliminates the need for complex account codes, making the general ledger easier to use and reducing errors and delays. The multidimensional chart of accounts (COA) is an account numbering system that has multiple segments defined within an account structure. These segments, or dimensions, enable tracking and reporting at a greater level of detail. This type of COA is typically used by larger organizations that need to track their financial transactions from more than one identifier within the general ledger. In summary, multidimensional accounting offers a flexible and powerful way to track and report on your business, providing more detailed and operationally relevant information than traditional accounting methods. Note: AI-generated answer. Please verify critical facts. Thank you to Vincent Dawans for a workable implementation in GnuCash demonstrated at https://github.com/dawansv/gnucash-custom-reports?tab=readme-ov-file#tag-prefix https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-April/111596.html Michael or Penny Novack wrote: > a) Accounts of type "expense" and accounts of type "income" are really the > same type of temporary account of fundamental type equity... They really > differ just in the sense of their normal balance, debit for expenses and > credit for income. We get the top level types "income" and "expense" only > so that we do NOT have to specify them for the P We have a different reading list but that is a useful concept to understand. Regards > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:09 PM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > > If the events are fixed, such as "Memorial Day Celebration" and > "Independence Celebration", you could make an expense category and then > have sub-categories for it. I assume that you can run P on one set of > categories. Would that work? You'd have similar sub-categories. I'm pretty > sure you could get a breakdown for the events, but if you also want a total > (for example) "postage" from each category, I'm not sure how to do that, > especially if you want all the sub-categories summarized. Perhaps > exporting to a spreadsheet and creating a pivot table? (or something along > those lines?) > > _ > Richard Losey > rlo...@gmail.com > Micah 6:8 > > d) But WHAT is this "category: business? Why are you (still?) talking > about categories.If you mean account, say account. We're doing standard > double entry bookkeeping here. > > Michael D Novack > > Noted: sub-account... in my mind, I was thinking of categorizing expenses, and the "category" came to mind. You're right, of course. -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
If the events are fixed, such as "Memorial Day Celebration" and "Independence Celebration", you could make an expense category and then have sub-categories for it. I assume that you can run P on one set of categories. Would that work? You'd have similar sub-categories. I'm pretty sure you could get a breakdown for the events, but if you also want a total (for example) "postage" from each category, I'm not sure how to do that, especially if you want all the sub-categories summarized. Perhaps exporting to a spreadsheet and creating a pivot table? (or something along those lines?) _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 a) Accounts of type "expense" and accounts of type "income" are really the same type of temporary account of fundamental type equity. If you know the historical development of double entry bookkeeping over the last several hundred years you will know where they came from. They really differ just in the sense of their normal balance, debit for expenses and credit for income. We get the top level types "income" and "expense" only so that we do NOT have to specify them for the P b) That means we can create the subtree for an event EITHER under income or expense and put all children of this event there whether they are "really" income or expense. The "wrong" ones are simply contra in sense. A debit balance account of type income is a "negative" income, that is, an expense. c) Assuming we consistently made all the printing and postage accounts the same (all expense) we can produce a report showing all of them. Surely you can picture and income and expense report where JUST some expense accounts were included. Don't have to export to a spreadsheet. BUT the latter is exactly what I would do in practice. You have run the FULL P (all accounts) and exported it and opened as a spreadsheet. Now say you want just a few accounts. COPY the spreadsheet giving it a name like "Printing and Postage" and then delete everything but the accounts for printing and postage and the spreadsheet will total those for you. Do the same for whatever else you need, say each event by itself, say all of the events (but nothing else), say the events each without it printing and postage (if you have ever done a 990/990EZ you'll know where that goes depending on whether your events make revenue or are an expense. d) But WHAT is this "category: business? Why are you (still?) talking about categories.If you mean account, say account. We're doing standard double entry bookkeeping here. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:44 AM Michael or Penny Novack < stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> d) What you can;t do is have it both ways. Traditional double entry > >> bookkeeping allows only one tree structure for the CoA. To get it > >> different in different reports you would have to BOTH set up the CoA > >> correctly AND select just certain accounts for the report. > > Of course you can by running the report filtered for transactions with or > > without tag(s). (It is an unfortunate term because most searches will > find > > the term used in the context of computer code rather than filtering > > transactions for reports.) > > I don't think you are picturing what I meant by both ways. > > Say doing organizational reporting, and this organization (among its > other activities) conducts several "events" every year. naturally the > BoD will want to see accounting by event (what were the expenses and > revenues for THIS event; how much did it cost us to put on the event or > how much did we make, compare the separate event report with those of > prior years, how about all events together (will come back to that). > > One of the expenses associated with each event would be for printing > fliers, postage for mailing, etc. (things that can be considered > "printing and postage") so under each event, such an account. BUT > "printing and postage" is a line item on the 990/990EZ and also going to > have to report the total for this activity sort WITHOUT printing and > postage since that's a separate line item. > > So -- if the CoA structured correctly will be able to produce reports. > > a) For each event, P (select just the accounts of that event) > > b) The totals for all events NOT including the "printing and postage" > expense (again, by selecting the accounts to include) > > c) Printing and postage total for the organization (again selecting all > the "printing and postage" accounts -- note that some of these will be > other than as an expense of some event) > > You aren't thinking of all the things the Treasurer of an org is going > to be wanting from the books. ONE set of books, able to produce reports > for various purposes, at different levels of detail. For example, the > BoD might want to see the total for "independent contractors" but not > how much paid to each let alone how much of what was paid to each was > "compensation" and how much "reimbursement of expenses" (so whether a > 1099-MISC will be needed to be filed to whom and if so, for how much) > > That's why I am stressing "get the CoA" right so you can get all that > you need out of it. You can always reduce the amount of detail in > reports, specialize reports, etc. later but only if captured in the > first place. And keep in mind that you do not necessarily have to do all > the reduction of detail, specialization, etc. INSIDE gnucash. You can > also export reports and then do the rest of it using your favorite > editor << that's how I was told to do it by a lawyer/accountant on one > of the BODs -- he said that's how any of us accountants would do it -- > and mind, as a "pro" I could have coded custom reports ->> > > Michael D Novack > If the events are fixed, such as "Memorial Day Celebration" and "Independence Celebration", you could make an expense category and then have sub-categories for it. I assume that you can run P on one set of categories. Would that work? You'd have similar sub-categories. I'm pretty sure you could get a breakdown for the events, but if you also want a total (for example) "postage" from each category, I'm not sure how to do that, especially if you want all the sub-categories summarized. Perhaps exporting to a spreadsheet and creating a pivot table? (or something along those lines?) -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
d) What you can;t do is have it both ways. Traditional double entry bookkeeping allows only one tree structure for the CoA. To get it different in different reports you would have to BOTH set up the CoA correctly AND select just certain accounts for the report. Of course you can by running the report filtered for transactions with or without tag(s). (It is an unfortunate term because most searches will find the term used in the context of computer code rather than filtering transactions for reports.) I don't think you are picturing what I meant by both ways. Say doing organizational reporting, and this organization (among its other activities) conducts several "events" every year. naturally the BoD will want to see accounting by event (what were the expenses and revenues for THIS event; how much did it cost us to put on the event or how much did we make, compare the separate event report with those of prior years, how about all events together (will come back to that). One of the expenses associated with each event would be for printing fliers, postage for mailing, etc. (things that can be considered "printing and postage") so under each event, such an account. BUT "printing and postage" is a line item on the 990/990EZ and also going to have to report the total for this activity sort WITHOUT printing and postage since that's a separate line item. So -- if the CoA structured correctly will be able to produce reports. a) For each event, P (select just the accounts of that event) b) The totals for all events NOT including the "printing and postage" expense (again, by selecting the accounts to include) c) Printing and postage total for the organization (again selecting all the "printing and postage" accounts -- note that some of these will be other than as an expense of some event) You aren't thinking of all the things the Treasurer of an org is going to be wanting from the books. ONE set of books, able to produce reports for various purposes, at different levels of detail. For example, the BoD might want to see the total for "independent contractors" but not how much paid to each let alone how much of what was paid to each was "compensation" and how much "reimbursement of expenses" (so whether a 1099-MISC will be needed to be filed to whom and if so, for how much) That's why I am stressing "get the CoA" right so you can get all that you need out of it. You can always reduce the amount of detail in reports, specialize reports, etc. later but only if captured in the first place. And keep in mind that you do not necessarily have to do all the reduction of detail, specialization, etc. INSIDE gnucash. You can also export reports and then do the rest of it using your favorite editor << that's how I was told to do it by a lawyer/accountant on one of the BODs -- he said that's how any of us accountants would do it -- and mind, as a "pro" I could have coded custom reports ->> Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
or more expenses (at least interest; maybe insurance, fees, and others depending on the terms of the loan) and principal payment that reduces the loan amount. Property owners also need to distinguish between maintenance and improvements: The latter increase the value of the property, the former are an expense. Mortgage payments usually just principle, interest, and escrow (payments into an asset account being held for you by the mortgage company from which taxes, insurance, etc. are paid. You possibly will not know the dates and amounts of those transactions (for example debit RE Tax, credit escrow) until you get your annual escrow review statement. At least it was that way in the old days of pen and ink on paper. Wrong to consider what is going into escrow a current expense. The amount they calculate you must pay into escrow each month is enough to keep the balance in that account positive at all times throughout the year << as various amounts go out for RE tax, insurance, etc. >> In other words, the amount you must pay into escrow will usually change annually based on the current balance in the account, and the dates and amounts payments from the account will be made. NOT simply add up annual taxes, insurance, etc. and divided by twelve! Michael D Novack PS -- This may be dependent on jurisdiction, but so far those were the rules in the states in which I have lived/had a mortgage. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 10:49 john wrote: > > > > On Apr 14, 2024, at 17:45, Oleander via gnucash-user < > gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > is "Housing" a proper account name if I want to include only my > apartment expenses like Rent/Mortgage and Repairs? I'd like to > record my Utilities expenses separately within another account so that my > "Housing" account adds up only the expenses related to the building. > > > > If not, what would you use? > > Rent is an expense but if you're renting then maintenance should generally > be the landlord's responsibility. If you are the owner and renting out the property, then rent is income. A mortgage means you own the place and the payment gets split up into one > or more expenses (at least interest; maybe insurance, fees, and others > depending on the terms of the loan) and principal payment that reduces the > loan amount. Property owners also need to distinguish between maintenance > and improvements: The latter increase the value of the property, the former > are an expense. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
> On Apr 14, 2024, at 17:45, Oleander via gnucash-user > wrote: > > Hello, > is "Housing" a proper account name if I want to include only my apartment > expenses like Rent/Mortgage and Repairs? I'd like to record my > Utilities expenses separately within another account so that my "Housing" > account adds up only the expenses related to the building. > > If not, what would you use? Rent is an expense but if you're renting then maintenance should generally be the landlord's responsibility. A mortgage means you own the place and the payment gets split up into one or more expenses (at least interest; maybe insurance, fees, and others depending on the terms of the loan) and principal payment that reduces the loan amount. Property owners also need to distinguish between maintenance and improvements: The latter increase the value of the property, the former are an expense. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 4:26 AM Oleander via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > Hello, > is "Housing" a proper account name if I want to include only my apartment > expenses like Rent/Mortgage and Repairs? I'd like to record my > Utilities expenses separately within another account so that my "Housing" > account adds up only the expenses related to the building. > > If not, what would you use? > > I have a Housing account and beneath it, I have Mortgage, Repairs, Maintenance, Mortgage Interest, Appliance, Linen as sub-categories. Currently, I have Utilities as a separate expense header, with Electric, Gas, Water, and Trash as sub-categories. The layout of expenses is whatever makes sense to you and your needs. _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On 4/14/2024 8:45 PM, Oleander via gnucash-user wrote: Hello, is "Housing" a proper account name if I want to include only my apartment expenses like Rent/Mortgage and Repairs? I'd like to record my Utilities expenses separately within another account so that my "Housing" account adds up only the expenses related to the building. If not, what would you use? Thanks, a) The name you choose to give an account is whatever is meaningful to YOU. Just avoid any of the (few) reserved account names (like "asset", "expense", etc.) b) You can either have "utilities" totally elsewhere OR you can consider those expense intimately related to housing and have that account a CHILD of "housing". Your CoA (chart of accounts) is logically of structure type TREE where accounts can be children of an account that is their parent. So you could have "rent" and "utilities" as children of "housing". That would allow you to see the separate totals of "utilities" and "rent" as well as the total for "housing" (I am referring to reports) c) But say you were thinking of entering OTHER sorts of utility expenses under "utilities", say you bill for phone service << we used to think of a phone associated with a place but now many of us carry them in our pockets. You could have "utilities" separate.. d) What you can;t do is have it both ways. Traditional double entry bookkeeping allows only one tree structure for the CoA. To get it different in different reports you would have to BOTH set up the CoA correctly AND select just certain accounts for the report. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] What account name do you use to record the apartment/house expenses related to the building?
On 15 Apr 2024, at 01:45, Oleander via gnucash-user wrote: > > Hello, > is "Housing" a proper account name if I want to include only my apartment > expenses like Rent/Mortgage and Repairs? I'd like to record my > Utilities expenses separately within another account so that my "Housing" > account adds up only the expenses related to the building. Yes, Expenses:Housing would be fine. Remember that you can set up “Child” accounts, for example... Expenses:Housing:Utilities Expenses:Housing:Rent Expenses:Housing:Repairs …which would allow you to generate separate reports from each Child separately or in any combination - it all depends on how granular you want your reports. You could also split the Utilities into Expenses:Housing:Utilities:Gas, Expenses:Housing:Utiliities:Electrity etc if you want to go that far. When you’re setting this up, it’s probably better to overdo the granularity, because it’s less trouble to merge two children than to separate the (say) Gas and Electricity transactions, if you change your mind later. HTH Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
