Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

If a few people felt the need to delay, that should have an effect. Surely! But indeed there was an (maybe to small) effect in the migration vote. On September 14, I suggested a compromise between David’s first proposal

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 2:16:03 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > John, your proposed Oct 1 deadline (from your message on Sep 16) > Sorry, I should have written: "your proposed Oct 1 start date of the vote." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 9:55:09 AM UTC-7 John H Palmieri wrote: > On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 9:48:29 AM UTC-7 tobias...@gmail.com wrote: > >> I just had another look at the voting thread, where most votes were >> voiced in the first two days, and the almost-slient discussion thread, >>

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 9:48:29 AM UTC-7 tobias...@gmail.com wrote: > I just had another look at the voting thread, where most votes were voiced > in the first two days, and the almost-slient discussion thread, where > mostly a few practical aspects of the migrations were discussed.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

Maybe more to the point, the thread was going in the direction of a general policy discussion about how to conduct votes and how to handle requests for delays. Dima interrupted, unprompted as far as I can see, by bringing back up the particular recent case along with comments about one

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I just had another look at the voting thread, where most votes were voiced in the first two days, and the almost-slient discussion thread, where mostly a few practical aspects of the migrations were discussed. From this, I don't get the impression that the most voters felt they needed more time

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I apologize for being indirect. I was responding to Dima's sentence, "... the delay was requested by an individual ..." which implies that there was just one person requesting the delay. I was pointing out, apparently too indirectly, that more than one person had requested a delay, and perhaps

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 12:19 AM Kwankyu Lee wrote: > > > > On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 7:05:38 AM UTC+9 John H Palmieri wrote: >> >> Dima, presumably you're not talking about me, although I proposed that "we >> start a vote around October 1". > > > I guess he means:

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 7:05:38 AM UTC+9 John H Palmieri wrote: > Dima, presumably you're not talking about me, although I proposed that "we > start a vote around October 1". > I guess he means: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33725#comment:26 -- You received this message because

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Thursday, October 6, 2022 at 3:05:38 PM UTC-7 John H Palmieri wrote: > Anyway, the point of having a policy is so that we don't have to concern > ourselves with the motives of the people requesting the delay or anything > else: we would just handle the request as our policy dictates. > +1.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

Dima, presumably you're not talking about me, although I proposed that "we start a vote around October 1". Anyway, the point of having a policy is so that we don't have to concern ourselves with the motives of the people requesting the delay or anything else: we would just handle the request

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022, 20:21 Jonathan Thornburg, wrote: > On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 8:45 AM John H Palmieri > wrote: > > There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of > > voting, but we have a chair and we have an executive committee, and the > > hope is that they care not

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 8:45 AM John H Palmieri wrote: > There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of > voting, but we have a chair and we have an executive committee, and the > hope is that they care not only about the particular issue at hand, but > also about the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I hope we don't introduce something akin to the US Senate filibuster :-) On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 5:26 PM William Stein wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 8:45 AM John H Palmieri wrote: > > Hi William, > > There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of > > voting, but we

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 8:45 AM John H Palmieri wrote: > Hi William, > There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of voting, > but we have a chair and we have an executive committee, and the hope is that > they care not only about the particular issue at hand, but also

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

Hi William, There is nothing in our department's bylaws to provide for a delay of voting, but we have a chair and we have an executive committee, and the hope is that they care not only about the particular issue at hand, but also about the atmosphere in the department. So if someone asked for

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

> If we limit such powers, e.g. allowing just one delaying request per year > per person, then another vote can be called on a slightly different > question, effectively overruling the delaying request. > Whether two requests are two similar is the sort of thing a parliamentarian decides in

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I don't think it is feasible to design a system to delay voting. If we don't limit the delaying powers of participants, effectively every vote can be put off indefinitely. If we limit such powers, e.g. allowing just one delaying request per year per person, then another vote can be called on a

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

A suggestion for votes for sage development process: 1. Anyone can call for a vote for a relevant issue for sage development. 2. A vote must be preceded by a discussion on the issue on sage-devel, where the date and the duration of the vote is determined. A vote lasts at least a week. 3. If

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 8:09 PM John H Palmieri wrote: > > The main response I saw to the requests for a slower process was from David > Roe, saying, "Finally, since we're just voting on trac vs github I don't > think there's a need to draw out the discussion until October 1, and several >

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I must have been what Dutch would call "direct", English "undiplomatic" and French "violent", I guess. On Wed, 5 Oct 2022, 20:31 Matthias Koeppe, wrote: > Sorry, bad link, I meant to paste this link: > https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/5jotDDgyBwAJ > > On Wednesday, October

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

Sorry, bad link, I meant to paste this link: https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/5jotDDgyBwAJ On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 12:29:50 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > I'm guessing that this must be a language barrier at work here, > but these accusations of using

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I'm guessing that this must be a language barrier at work here, but these accusations of using "violence" (first occurrence, https://cfce091fecee537040d612098a22852d9f083c36--sagemath-tobias.netlify.app/developer/index.html#welcome-to-the-sage-developer-s-guide) are by far the most offensive

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 11:44:37 AM UTC-7 vdelecroix wrote: > I do not interpret Thierry message as an attempt to change the issue > of the vote. > It's probably better if Thierry could clarify that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

Dear all, I do not interpret Thierry message as an attempt to change the issue of the vote. Most of the answers focused on this particular point and hence look completely off topic to me. More dramatically they are also very rude in that they try to discredit what Thierry attempted to share. I

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Democratic issue: rushing decisions

I will also note that the final vote in favor of moving to github was 46 to 8 in favor. Another few weeks of discussion, on top of the substantial amount of time spent over the last few months (in fact, over the last decade), is unlikely to have changed the outcome. David On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at