dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaja, Kiran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
> Let me try to clarify this: > > Definitions: > > Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any > individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to > attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of > various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend > on the date of booking and the passenger load. > > Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a > destination. > > Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or > other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. > > Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current > situation. > > 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the > full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair > which is paid by disabled passenger. > 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of > concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if > the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting > concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to > me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any > such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet > Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, > Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status > of a flight is not public. > 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines > based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, > competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change > dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category > of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a > result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind > persons can book on these discounted tickets. > 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 > discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can > definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as > such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. > > These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the > concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines > to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. > > There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely > misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still > single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an > escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, > I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, > I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for > my wife. > > Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket > even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. > > One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services > provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non > existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to > have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. > This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. > Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities > because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay > airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in > Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered > to disabled passengers. > > Regards, > Kiran. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability > rights initiative > Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM > To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air > > dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, > i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter > of > concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my > knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were > offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on > the > flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i > am > wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other > than > pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business > practise > to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to > do > with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets > available on > a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted > tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would > these > five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct > then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be > addressed. > in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of > discounted seats in a flight pwds should at all times be given > discounted > tickets using the logic that if the tickets were not discounted pwds > would > in any case have got a concessional ticket. also most of us in the list > feel > that it would not be correct to ask for discounted/ concessional tickets > for > escorts and the airlines need to provide facilities to offset the same. > can > i have your feedback by today evening as we are to place our suggestions > by > tomorrow. > thanks > rajive----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dr Rakesh Jain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air > > > > Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting > confused. > The > > discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart > > altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of > seats > on > > each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat > available > in > > the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny > us > > the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, > there > are > > ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a > flight, > > according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get > a > > confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an > issue, > > the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers > to > the > > last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. > > > > Dr. Rakesh Jain > > Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 > > Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 > > Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 > > Skype ID: dr.rjain > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Harish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > Air > > > > > > > Hi Rajiv > > > > > > Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are > running > > > in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry > us > > > anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. > > > Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to > Hyderabad > > > last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using > concession > > > would > > > come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without > concession > > > came > > > to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? > > > Harish. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "disability rights initiative" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > Air > > > > > > > > >> i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i > admire > all > > >> of > > >> you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but > > >> personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of > travellling > > >> alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of > steps, > > >> escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that > for > > >> air > > >> travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like > in > the > > >> railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel > and > > >> are > > >> late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it > would be > a > > >> good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable > us to > > >> have > > >> a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans > case > > >> (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated > at > > >> chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln > has > > >> resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has > sought > our > > >> interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a > more > > >> vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of > us > feel > > >> that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel > there > is > > >> no > > >> harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many > tickets > on > > >> discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this > is > my > > >> personal opinion. > > >> regards > > >> rajive > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Kaja, Kiran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling > by > Air > > >> > > >> > > >>> I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do > not > > >>> want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your > arguments. > > >>> If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that > the > > >>> airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am > sorry > > >>> to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide > any > > >>> sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally > > >>> impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not > want > to > > >>> travel alone, you are always free to take the train. > > >>> > > >>> Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much > fuss > > >>> about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any > sort > of > > >>> disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the > staff > > >>> decides that they can help you better by seating you at a > particular > > >>> place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats > and > not > > >>> just blind persons. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> Kiran. > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM > > >>> To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in > > >>> Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > Air > > >>> > > >>> Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take > care. > > >>> We > > >>> require an escort to assist us during the travel. & we want a > > >>> concessional > > >>> ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do > that > > >>> for > > >>> us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity > of a > > >>> true > > >>> escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is > > >>> enough to > > >>> know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied > upon > > >>> apprehensions. > > >>> > > >>> Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an issue? > Why > > >>> should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a > particular > > >>> seat?? > > >>> Let the crew know where the person is requiring special attention. > > >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>> with the subject unsubscribe. > > >>> > > >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes, > > >>> please visit the list home page at > > >>> > > >>> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > >>> n > > >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> with the subject unsubscribe. > > >>> > > >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes, > > >> please visit the list home page at > > >>> > > >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > 8/5/2006 > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > 8/5/2006 > > >> > > >> > > >> To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> with the subject unsubscribe. > > >> > > >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes, > > >> please visit the list home page at > > >> > > >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes, > > > please visit the list home page at > > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > 8/5/2006 > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006 > > > To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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