got it kiran, discounted dtickets for the early birds. concessional tickets at all times. lets see how dgca responds to that. through this mail also a big thankyou to all of you who chipped in with valuable inputs. rajive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaja, Kiran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
> Hi Rajeev, > > As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available > depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, > Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 > excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an > average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around > 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough > one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days > before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what > level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask > for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really > don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. > > Regards, > Kiran. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability > rights initiative > Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM > To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air > > dear kiran, > thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on > facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. > also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one > can > avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled > person > to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets > are > lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold > out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled > person > for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their > policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last > moment so > as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as > these > tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as > well > please. > many thanks > rajive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kaja, Kiran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air > > > > Let me try to clarify this: > > > > Definitions: > > > > Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any > > individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to > > attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of > > various types and classes. The amount of discount available may > depend > > on the date of booking and the passenger load. > > > > Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a > > destination. > > > > Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities > or > > other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. > > > > Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current > > situation. > > > > 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only > the > > full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair > > which is paid by disabled passenger. > > 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of > > concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, > if > > the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting > > concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened > to > > me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have > any > > such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of > Jet > > Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian > Airlines, > > Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status > > of a flight is not public. > > 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines > > based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, > > competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change > > dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category > > of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as > a > > result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that > blind > > persons can book on these discounted tickets. > > 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 > > discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can > > definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as > > such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. > > > > These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the > > concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking > airlines > > to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. > > > > There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely > > misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still > > single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an > > escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that > 1, > > I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and > 2, > > I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair > for > > my wife. > > > > Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket > > even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. > > > > One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services > > provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost > non > > existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to > > have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. > > This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. > > Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport > authorities > > because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also > pay > > airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens > in > > Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered > > to disabled passengers. > > > > Regards, > > Kiran. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > disability > > rights initiative > > Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM > > To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > Air > > > > dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, > > i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the > matter > > of > > concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my > > knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were > > offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on > > the > > flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if > i > > am > > wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other > > than > > pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business > > practise > > to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing > to > > do > > with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets > > available on > > a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get > discounted > > tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would > > these > > five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is > correct > > then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be > > addressed. > > in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number > of > > discounted seats in a flight pwds should at all times be given > > discounted > > tickets using the logic that if the tickets were not discounted pwds > > would > > in any case have got a concessional ticket. also most of us in the > list > > feel > > that it would not be correct to ask for discounted/ concessional > tickets > > for > > escorts and the airlines need to provide facilities to offset the > same. > > can > > i have your feedback by today evening as we are to place our > suggestions > > by > > tomorrow. > > thanks > > rajive----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dr Rakesh Jain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > Air > > > > > > > Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting > > confused. > > The > > > discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class > apart > > > altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of > > seats > > on > > > each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat > > available > > in > > > the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not > deny > > us > > > the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, > > there > > are > > > ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a > > flight, > > > according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not > get > > a > > > confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an > > issue, > > > the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers > > to > > the > > > last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. > > > > > > Dr. Rakesh Jain > > > Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 > > > Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 > > > Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 > > > Skype ID: dr.rjain > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Harish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > > Air > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rajiv > > > > > > > > Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are > > running > > > > in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not > carry > > us > > > > anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. > > > > Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to > > Hyderabad > > > > last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using > > concession > > > > would > > > > come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without > > concession > > > > came > > > > to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? > > > > Harish. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "disability rights initiative" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling > by > > Air > > > > > > > > > > > >> i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i > > admire > > all > > > >> of > > > >> you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. > but > > > >> personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of > > travellling > > > >> alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of > > steps, > > > >> escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel > that > > for > > > >> air > > > >> travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like > > in > > the > > > >> railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to > travel > > and > > > >> are > > > >> late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it > > would be > > a > > > >> good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable > > us to > > > >> have > > > >> a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans > > case > > > >> (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly > medicated > > at > > > >> chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by > hrln > > has > > > >> resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has > > sought > > our > > > >> interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a > > more > > > >> vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of > > us > > feel > > > >> that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel > > there > > is > > > >> no > > > >> harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many > > tickets > > on > > > >> discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but > this > > is > > my > > > >> personal opinion. > > > >> regards > > > >> rajive > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "Kaja, Kiran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM > > > >> Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling > > by > > Air > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do > > not > > > >>> want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your > > arguments. > > > >>> If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that > > the > > > >>> airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I > am > > sorry > > > >>> to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not > provide > > any > > > >>> sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally > > > >>> impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not > > want > > to > > > >>> travel alone, you are always free to take the train. > > > >>> > > > >>> Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much > > fuss > > > >>> about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any > > sort > > of > > > >>> disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if > the > > staff > > > >>> decides that they can help you better by seating you at a > > particular > > > >>> place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats > > and > > not > > > >>> just blind persons. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> Kiran. > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM > > > >>> To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in > > > >>> Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by > > Air > > > >>> > > > >>> Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take > > care. > > > >>> We > > > >>> require an escort to assist us during the travel. & we want a > > > >>> concessional > > > >>> ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could > do > > that > > > >>> for > > > >>> us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity > > of a > > > >>> true > > > >>> escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud > is > > > >>> enough to > > > >>> know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied > > upon > > > >>> apprehensions. > > > >>> > > > >>> Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an > issue? > > Why > > > >>> should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a > > particular > > > >>> seat?? > > > >>> Let the crew know where the person is requiring special > attention. > > > >>> > > > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >>> with the subject unsubscribe. > > > >>> > > > >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > > changes, > > > >>> please visit the list home page at > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > > >>> n > > > >>> > > > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> with the subject unsubscribe. > > > >>> > > > >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > > changes, > > > >> please visit the list home page at > > > >>> > > > >> > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > n > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > > > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > > 8/5/2006 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > > 8/5/2006 > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> To unsubscribe send a message to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> with the subject unsubscribe. > > > >> > > > >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > > changes, > > > >> please visit the list home page at > > > >> > > > >> > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > n > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > > changes, > > > > please visit the list home page at > > > > > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > n > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://in.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other > changes, > > please visit the list home page at > > > > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > n > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > > 8/5/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > 8/5/2006 > > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > > please visit the list home page at > > > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > > n > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: > 8/5/2006 > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006 > > > To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i > n > > To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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