..on or around Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 12:55:47PM +0200, adam hyde said:
> i dont know if its a good idea...call me crazy, but i once did a
> workshop with Matthew Biederman on PD using VNC (a remote desktop app)
> and skype...Matthew was in LA and the students and I were in Canada. 
> 
> matthew operated the PD on the projector in our room through VNC, so we
> also heard all the audio created via the patch. 
> 
> It worked _very_ well because VNC only refreshes the screen where it
> needs to be redrawn hence it is ultra light weight and fast over a
> network connection when it only needs to redraw pd boxes
> 
> the students could easily talk directly to Matthew from where they were
> sitting via the skype session (they each had a computer with pd running
> so they could emulate the lesson)..the local tutor (me) then went round
> from student to student checking all was good but generally the students
> spoke directly to Matthew
> 
> might be worth thinking about? it could be cool to have a local tutor
> and guest international tutors for specific lessons? 
> 

i think it's a good solution in the case there aren't people in Wellington 
that know the tools. 

someone locally in NZ could act as a tutor, bringing themselves up to speed
with PD first by reading manuals and playing around. perhaps the remote
experts could reccommend course-material so the tutors could become
familiar with the lesson contexts. 

one or more remote experts could then steer the lessons and povide for 
Q and A.

julian
Madrid, Spain.

> 
> 
> On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 11:19 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote:
> > ..on or around Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 09:04:55AM +0900, Karl D.D. Willis said:
> > > I have used Max/Msp/Jitter for some time but would love to see PD  
> > > grow and grow.
> > > When I first looked at PD several years ago, GEM was still pretty  
> > > funky to work with and Jitter was solid.
> > > 
> > > But Max/Msp/Jitter is not so easy to teach.
> > 
> > i've taught PD with good results on a few occassions. if you work slow
> > and cover base concepts in a non-rarefied language people can be up and
> > running in a few days. some people have difficulty with concepts 
> > such as 'variables' or conditional tests so i found starting with a 
> > primer on the basics of programming - using PD in examples - gives them 
> > enough to design with greater independence and imagination later.
> > 
> > Derek Holzer teaches PD very often and is now something of an authority 
> > on the topic. perhaps writing to Derek (as Adam suggests) could be a good 
> > start to thinking about building a small course around it?
> > 
> > > I have tried myself and another long time user/object maker is  
> > > currently teaching it here in Tokyo and told me it was a lot more  
> > > difficult than it seems.
> > > 
> > > What is huge here is Processing. They recently launched the first  
> > > book about Processing (in Japanese no less) and had a launch demo/ 
> > > event that was completely packed out.
> > > There are now several (English) books on Processing available too:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/Processing-Programming-Handbook-Designers- 
> > > Artists/dp/0262182629/
> > > http://www.amazon.com/Processing-Creative-Coding-Computational- 
> > > Foundation/dp/159059617X/
> > > 
> > > But yeah, it is simple to learn, it's sauce is open, it's  
> > > documentation is great, you can graduate to programming in Java, it  
> > > plays well with Arduino...
> > > But then, it's a bit slow for computer vision, it's interface is  
> > > quirky, you actually have to write real 'code' rather than move cool  
> > > blocks round screen...
> > > 
> > 
> > i also think Processing is great but it suffers the Java misnomer
> > of build-once-run-anywhere. it is also very processor intensive: AFAIK
> > it doesn't yet exploit the richness of modern GPU's, so all actual 
> > processing is CPU side. 
> > 
> > more-so, it's only really good for graphics development. PD or Max/MSP are
> > really useful for network-wide messaging, real-world to digital interfacing,
> > number shaping, signal-processing etc.
> > 
> > that said, i think Processing is a far better context for for teaching 
> > graphics programming and object-orientation in general.
> > 
> > relatedly, one very fine 'framework' you might like to look into is:
> > 
> >   http://openframeworks.cc/
> > 
> > the interface is C++, which isn't perhaps so great for starting out with
> > programming of course..
> > 
> > another is vvvv 
> > 
> >   http://vvvv.org/tiki-index.php
> > 
> > but it is all DirectX/Windows which greatly limits it's usefulness.
> > 
> > another issue here - one not covered enough - surrounds the ethics of
> > teaching people software many/most will have to steal to use. 
> > on more than one occassion i've seen a Max/MSP teacher handing out cracked 
> > copies of the program to students. 
> > 
> > this of course is no different from multimedia courses in NZ (and elsewhere)
> > requiring students to somehow 'aquire' NZ1000.00 worth of software to 
> > complete a degree they've already paid for..
> > 
> > julian
> > Madrid, Spain
> > 
> -- 
> 
> 
> adam hyde
> 'free as in media'
> 
> ~/.nl
> 
> http://www.flossmanuals.net
> http://www.simpel.cc
> http://www.radioqualia.net
> 

-- 
http://julianoliver.com
http://selectparks.net
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