We are talking about the phrase' Old Masters'. A quite different question. Can you imagine anyone talking about 'Old Masters' in the eighteenth century or any time before?
DA On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:44 PM, William Conger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The original notion of Master in the field of visual > arts did indeed stem from the guilds, particularly the > Guild of St. Luke. These operated much like trade > unions today where one had to serve an apprenticeship, > etc., and to acquire knowledge, performance skill, and > eventual recognition as a "master" by other guild > masters upon creating a "masterpiece". With that, the > new master could open his own studio, take in new > apprentices to train and seek commissions. They > system encouraged continuation of approved methods and > styles, usually those of one's master, with subtle > improvements made buy the most ambitious students. In > this context we are reminded of Leonardo's famous > dictum: "He is a poor student who does not improve > upon his master". Interestin gly, the Guild of St. > Luke was also the guild of the Barber-Surgeons who had > control of artist's pigments and oils, etc. as well as > medical practices. That's how artists and "surgeons" > of the early Ren. got together to perform dissections > and thus initiate the modern knowledge of human > anatomy. The concept of "old masters" stems from > later State Academy culture, before the 19C, when > students were admonished to "Imitate" the "old" > masters. > > There are extant contracts for a master taking on > apprentices. Some actually took charge of a > youngster's life, from about aged 10-12, promising to > teach him how to read and write, count, behave, attain > social graces, as well as the killed trade that might, > might, lead to eventual master status. Most artists > remained just that, always in the employ of others, > never getting Guild approval to open their own master > studios. > > WC > > > > > > > --- Derek Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Re: 'I believe the term comes from masters of the > > guilds, before the idea of > > visual artist became > > prominent.' > > > > No it's a 19th century creation. Brought about by > > academic painters who > > felt they had 'finally' discovered the secret of > > painting (ie by using a > > 'photographic' style - See eg Bougueureau.) Earlier > > painters - Titian, > > Raphael etc - could not be dismissed - they were too > > well respected. So they > > became the 'Old masters'. > > > > DA > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Allan Sutherland > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > On 21/4/08 15:34, "Derek Allan" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > 'Old Masters' in visual art > > > > > > Old masters are not young masters in the visual > > arts. But the source does > > > relate to something or other, and is not without > > merit. I believe the term > > > comes from masters of the guilds, before the idea > > of visual artist became > > > prominent. > > > > > > In jazz there is no concept of an old master, > > instead people spoke of > > > professors of jazz from the outset in the early > > 20th century; the title > > > referring to a level of musical knowledge and > > virtuosic skill. > > > > > > Toodle-pip. > > > > > > Allan. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Derek Allan > > > http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm > > -- Derek Allan http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm
