Round 16?
How many rounds are there?
On 7/31/20 6:34 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
You can purchase C band spectrum, but it will be sold in PEA sized
chunks. Opening prices have been announced, auction starts in December
I believe.
Not sure of the short form date but if you are going to bid in it you
may want to form a group. Unfortunately some of the people you
probably want to talk with might be in the CBRS auction which can make
things difficult with the anti-collusion rules.
Mark
On Jul 31, 2020, at 3:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com
<mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
NO, C-band is going directly to auction block, without any SAS or
sharing. There are some discussions to bring more CBRS like spectrum
under 3550. 3300-3550 IIRC
*Gino****Villarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
on behalf of Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
*Reply-To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date:*Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:37 PM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
They are repacking C-band to free up 3700-4000 “for 5G”. Does that
mean not for us?
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Kurt Fankhauser
*Sent:*Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:48 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
If the SAS ends up working out really well to protect incumbents can
we expect more spectrum maybe the next 50-100mhz directly below where
the new CBRS band is now?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:38 AM Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each
tower with 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol!
That says a lot =(
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:55 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Mark,
I had an interesting meeting with Cambium, federated and such to
help us coordinate our channels and so far it been a bonus by
getting all of my Aps to 30Mhz wide and shifting the channels so we
all coexist
My issue is whats going to happen in phase 2
I am sure Ill wake up and all my APs will be disabled or dropped Eirp
We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each
tower with 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol!
On 7/29/2020 12:40 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
At this point it depends on what your SAS is doing.
Federated (at last conversation) was trying to do some GAA
coordination but they were only looking at their own GAA assignments
Google (at last conversation) was an expensive black box that says
“YES” to any request as long as it doesn’t impact an incumbent.
I don’t know what the others are doing.
Mark
On Jul 29, 2020, at 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Not yet. I guess that's still a wish list item.
On 7/29/2020 11:09 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Wait, the lower 100 only denys grants if it impala a pal or the
elusive incumbent? I thought SAS coordination was across the
board in that CBRS chunk?
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:06 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
If you don’t have a PAL, you are GAA, anywhere in the 150 MHz.
The only difference is that the upper 50 MHz is GAA only. If
you request a frequency in 3650-3700 you would never get denied
to protect a PAL operator. But there could be umpteen other GAA
operators using that frequency, so I don’t think the SAS needs
to consider things like frequency reuse because they just
automatically approve the grant unless it would impact a PAL
protection area or an incumbent. Also there can be a max of 7
PALs issued in a county, so there should be at least 30 MHz for
GAA in the lower 100 MHz. Not a specific set of channels
though. But again, there could be umpteen WISPs all trying to
use that 30 MHz and I don’t think the SASes do anything to
police or coordinate GAA. Even in the case where there is
enough GAA spectrum in an area to accommodate everyone on
separate frequencies, I don’t see how they would communicate
this to the operators, since they either approve or deny grant
requests, they don’t suggest gee why don’t you use this other
frequency instead, it’s open. You have to do your own SA to
determine that. And repeat regularly. Even if there was a
mechanism in the protocols to request auto frequency assignment
from the SAS, there’s more than one SAS.
It’s a very complex system that doesn’t do much if everyone is
GAA. Other than give us some more spectrum, and do away with
LBT (which sucked).
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Steve Jones
*Sent:*Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:44 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
there are only 50mhz gaa, im talking about the other 100
operation without pal
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 8:54 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
With or without PAL?
If you’re GAA, I don’t think they care how you reuse or
duplicate frequencies between your own sectors or with adjacent
GAA users. I think you’re giving the SAS too much credit for
policing or coordinating frequency assignments among GAA
users. As long as you’re not stepping on an incumbent or a PAL
protection area, I think they’ll give you a grant for whatever
frequency you want.
PAL holders will probably need to work this out though.
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Steve Jones
*Sent:*Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:08 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
Is current SAS supporting SFG? if not, how will one reuse
frequency now?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:19 PM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net
<mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
There are several variants:
Single Frequency Groups (SFG) are multiple CBSD’s that all
operate on the same frequency. If you are going WTF - of
course the base station and the CPE’s are all a single
frequency group - keep in mind that in the mobile world the
handsets are not CBSD’s. For our purposes each BS and all of
it’s CPE’s have to be in a single frequency group. This is
also for frequency reuse - if you use channels A, B, C on your
network and reuse them in some type of pattern you would
designate all of the A’s in one SFG, B’s in another, etc. If
a SFG has to change channels they all have to change together.
Coexistence groups would be systems where timing parameters
match. Think multiple operators running LTE or a proprietary
protocol on a common UL:DL ratio. Not all use cases want to
use the same UL:DL ratio.
Mark
On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
As far as the SAS is concerned, it's all irrelevant.
They were talking about coexistence groups where a group of
operators could have overlapping assignments because the
operators are using some mechanism to coexist in the channels
assigned. I don't know if those made it to the end, nor what
form they've taken.
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Intelligent Computing Solutions
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*From:*"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
*To:*"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent:*Tuesday, July 28, 2020 5:11:04 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
Not at all. If I am running the same standard as someone else
and the same split then I can synchronize with them and we
aren’t going to interfere even if we’re relatively close. If
on the other hand we are not running the same standards in
the same split then we are going to interfere with each other
even if we are very far away from each other.
On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
The standards and settings are irrelevant. Tx power - loss =
receive power.
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Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
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*From:*"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
*To:*"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent:*Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:55:27 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
How does the SASI sure there will be no interference? Since
you can run so many different standards and settings?
On Jul 28, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yep, and anyone not operating in cbrs without SAS gets big
dollar reminders to stop
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 3:59 PM Kurt Fankhauser
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Josh,
You will have interference protection through the SAS so
that someone just can't blindly fire up right on top of
your channel right next to you. Every AP has to get a
grant from SAS before it can transmit. Also if Demand says
15 there is no way to tell if that is 15 individual
bidders or if 4-5 bidders are trying to bid on 4x10mhz
channels each. We will know when the auction is over more
info but while the auction is taking place everything is a
secret.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Well if you do licensed PTP links it seems you don't get
any kind of interference protection if someone else
doesn't play by the rules and they don't get any
punishment for doing so...
If you think CBRS will give you interference free
protection I'd love to know you do because I don't feel
that's going to be a game changer for hitting customers.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:42 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
drinking! They be purchased after the auction?
Divided over 10 years, it's a manageable number for
interference free spectrum. What do you pay per year in
interference related truck rolls, tech time and list
satisfaction?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 12:06 PM Mike Hammett
<af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Obviously the last round is public knowledge. After the
auction is over, are the results of all rounds public
information?
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Intelligent Computing Solutions
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*From:*"Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net
<mailto:m...@amplex.net>>
*To:*"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
<af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent:*Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:11:20 AM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far
Correct - no way to tell who is bidding. The complete
list of bidders is public knowledge:
https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders
Which counties those 271 bidders are bidding on is only
known by the FCC
Mark
On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
I assume the 14 or 15 bidders is a closely guarded
secret? I can't begin to think who would be able to
pay 30k around here for that besides
Verizon/AT&T/Sprint...
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM Mark Radabaugh
<m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
Note that the confidentiality and anti collusion
rules apply for anyone who filed the short form. Be
very careful that what you say in here does not
violate the FCC rules.
Everything discussed so far is from the public
information the FCC is releasing or from the auction
public notice.
To read the results Josh posted:
The price does not include discounts - 75% of the
posted price if you qualified as being under 25M/year
in revenue - so closer to 27k There is also a
rural provider credit.
It reads:
In the initial round the price of one 10Mhz PAL was
$21,000 not counting any discounts you may have been
eligible for. There were 14 bids at that price, with
only 7 lots available.
In the second round the price of one PAL was
$24,000 (less discounts). There were 15 bids at
that price, with only 7 available.
In the 5th round the price for one PAL went up to
$33,000 (less discounts) with demand down to 10
PAL’s. The price went up for ALL 7 of the PAL’s.
The price will keep going up until the demand is
equal to 7. Once demand gets to 7 there is still a
posted price increase - but unless someone adds
additional demand the price will stay at the previous
start of round price.
The price/demand could sit at 7 for the next (insert
number) of rounds and then start going back up if
another bidder decides they are priced out of one
county and want to move to another county. Or if
they are just playing games.
Once a county is at or above a demand for 7 PAL’s
the price won’t go down. If you get a PAL in a
round and later decide you don’t want it, you are
stuck buying it unless someone else bids at the
higher price. You can change your demand to 0,
saying you don’t want it anymore, but unless someone
else wants it you are stuck with it. Just like a
normal auction - once you are the winning bidder, you
own it unless someone outbids you.
For bidders there are required activity levels that
you have to meet. Essentially you have to bid 95% of
your initial deposit on each round. If you don’t
bid that what you are allowed to bid in the next
round goes down. The rule is basically to keep
bidders from sandbagging - if you haven’t been
bidding and are just waiting to see what others are
going to do you will run out of eligibility pretty
quickly.
Mark
On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Cassidy B. Larson
<c...@infowest.com <mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote:
It’s up to 37k per 10mhz block. Demand is going down
though! lol
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 28, 2020, at 08:22, Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
No idea how to read this:
<image.png>
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Kurt Fankhauser
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Josh,
Is your county up to 30k per 10mhz block?
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:08 AM Josh Baird
<joshba...@gmail.com <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Assuming it's too late at this point to get into
the initial rounds that are taking place this week?
Haven't really been keeping up with this.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I also lost track of the whole auction
situation. Will there be another round later?
Seems like nobody bid on some of the counties
around us, and I wish I'd thrown in a minimum
bid at this point.
On 7/28/2020 12:40 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Our starting bid was relatively inexpensive
over the ten year term for our 5 counties and 4
pals each. Almost had the boss talked into
giving it serious consideration so i could pull
the trigger on the auction. then the world
ended and that got back burnered. byt the time
we came back to it there was no time to learn
enough about the auction
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:54 PM Dave
<dmilho...@wletc.com
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
My guess is none...
Im sooo sick of the BS games the FCC and 'BIG
BOYZ' Are playing.
So funny how they say "Sure anyone can get a pal"
FCC should have shoved a big FU to all WISPs
and just let us die.
When I first saw the pricing on our county and
surrounding countys for
bid I knew there was no chance.
Let the lawsuits FLY...
On 7/27/2020 5:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 7/27/20 15:42, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105
>>
>
>
> I'm curious to see how many WISPs actually get a PAL when this is all
> done.
>
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