Well this could go on for awhile then.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:28 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > > Here is a map I just made of the PEAs: > > > https://arcg.is/1qK4Hm0 > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:11:41 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Pease size chunks are good right? That means I can get them cheap in the > really rural area and may be less expensive in the metro area in the exact > location I want to cover? > > On Jul 31, 2020, at 6:35 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: > > You can purchase C band spectrum, but it will be sold in PEA sized chunks. > Opening prices have been announced, auction starts in December I believe. > > Not sure of the short form date but if you are going to bid in it you may > want to form a group. Unfortunately some of the people you probably want to > talk with might be in the CBRS auction which can make things difficult with > the anti-collusion rules. > > Mark > > On Jul 31, 2020, at 3:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote: > > NO, C-band is going directly to auction block, without any SAS or sharing. > There are some discussions to bring more CBRS like spectrum under 3550. > 3300-3550 IIRC > > Gino Villarini > Founder/President > @gvillarini > t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 > > > www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> > Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:37 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > They are repacking C-band to free up 3700-4000 “for 5G”. Does that mean not > for us? > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:48 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > If the SAS ends up working out really well to protect incumbents can we > expect more spectrum maybe the next 50-100mhz directly below where the new > CBRS band is now? > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:38 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > >We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each tower > >with 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol! > > That says a lot =( > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:55 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: > Mark, > I had an interesting meeting with Cambium, federated and such to help us > coordinate our channels and so far it been a bonus by getting all of my Aps > to 30Mhz wide and shifting the channels so we all coexist > My issue is whats going to happen in phase 2 > I am sure Ill wake up and all my APs will be disabled or dropped Eirp > We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each tower with > 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol! > > On 7/29/2020 12:40 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: > At this point it depends on what your SAS is doing. > > Federated (at last conversation) was trying to do some GAA coordination but > they were only looking at their own GAA assignments > > Google (at last conversation) was an expensive black box that says “YES” to > any request as long as it doesn’t impact an incumbent. > > I don’t know what the others are doing. > > Mark > > > > On Jul 29, 2020, at 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Not yet. I guess that's still a wish list item. > > On 7/29/2020 11:09 AM, Steve Jones wrote: > Wait, the lower 100 only denys grants if it impala a pal or the elusive > incumbent? I thought SAS coordination was across the board in that CBRS chunk? > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:06 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > If you don’t have a PAL, you are GAA, anywhere in the 150 MHz. The only > difference is that the upper 50 MHz is GAA only. If you request a frequency > in 3650-3700 you would never get denied to protect a PAL operator. But there > could be umpteen other GAA operators using that frequency, so I don’t think > the SAS needs to consider things like frequency reuse because they just > automatically approve the grant unless it would impact a PAL protection area > or an incumbent. Also there can be a max of 7 PALs issued in a county, so > there should be at least 30 MHz for GAA in the lower 100 MHz. Not a specific > set of channels though. But again, there could be umpteen WISPs all trying > to use that 30 MHz and I don’t think the SASes do anything to police or > coordinate GAA. Even in the case where there is enough GAA spectrum in an > area to accommodate everyone on separate frequencies, I don’t see how they > would communicate this to the operators, since they either approve or deny > grant requests, they don’t suggest gee why don’t you use this other frequency > instead, it’s open. You have to do your own SA to determine that. And > repeat regularly. Even if there was a mechanism in the protocols to request > auto frequency assignment from the SAS, there’s more than one SAS. > > It’s a very complex system that doesn’t do much if everyone is GAA. Other > than give us some more spectrum, and do away with LBT (which sucked). > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones > Sent:Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:44 AM > To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > there are only 50mhz gaa, im talking about the other 100 operation without pal > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 8:54 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > With or without PAL? > > If you’re GAA, I don’t think they care how you reuse or duplicate frequencies > between your own sectors or with adjacent GAA users. I think you’re giving > the SAS too much credit for policing or coordinating frequency assignments > among GAA users. As long as you’re not stepping on an incumbent or a PAL > protection area, I think they’ll give you a grant for whatever frequency you > want. > > PAL holders will probably need to work this out though. > > From:AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>On Behalf Of Steve Jones > Sent:Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:08 AM > To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Is current SAS supporting SFG? if not, how will one reuse frequency now? > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:19 PM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: > There are several variants: > > Single Frequency Groups (SFG) are multiple CBSD’s that all operate on the > same frequency. If you are going WTF - of course the base station and the > CPE’s are all a single frequency group - keep in mind that in the mobile > world the handsets are not CBSD’s. For our purposes each BS and all of it’s > CPE’s have to be in a single frequency group. This is also for frequency > reuse - if you use channels A, B, C on your network and reuse them in some > type of pattern you would designate all of the A’s in one SFG, B’s in > another, etc. If a SFG has to change channels they all have to change > together. > > Coexistence groups would be systems where timing parameters match. Think > multiple operators running LTE or a proprietary protocol on a common UL:DL > ratio. Not all use cases want to use the same UL:DL ratio. > > Mark > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > As far as the SAS is concerned, it's all irrelevant. > > They were talking about coexistence groups where a group of operators could > have overlapping assignments because the operators are using some mechanism > to coexist in the channels assigned. I don't know if those made it to the > end, nor what form they've taken. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From:"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 5:11:04 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Not at all. If I am running the same standard as someone else and the same > split then I can synchronize with them and we aren’t going to interfere even > if we’re relatively close. If on the other hand we are not running the same > standards in the same split then we are going to interfere with each other > even if we are very far away from each other. > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > The standards and settings are irrelevant. Tx power - loss = receive power. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From:"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:55:27 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > How does the SASI sure there will be no interference? Since you can run so > many different standards and settings? > > > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yep, and anyone not operating in cbrs without SAS gets big dollar reminders > to stop > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 3:59 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > Josh, > > You will have interference protection through the SAS so that someone just > can't blindly fire up right on top of your channel right next to you. Every > AP has to get a grant from SAS before it can transmit. Also if Demand says 15 > there is no way to tell if that is 15 individual bidders or if 4-5 bidders > are trying to bid on 4x10mhz channels each. We will know when the auction is > over more info but while the auction is taking place everything is a secret. > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > Well if you do licensed PTP links it seems you don't get any kind of > interference protection if someone else doesn't play by the rules and they > don't get any punishment for doing so... > > If you think CBRS will give you interference free protection I'd love to know > you do because I don't feel that's going to be a game changer for hitting > customers. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:42 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > drinking! They be purchased after the auction? > Divided over 10 years, it's a manageable number for interference free > spectrum. What do you pay per year in interference related truck rolls, tech > time and list satisfaction? > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 12:06 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > Obviously the last round is public knowledge. After the auction is over, are > the results of all rounds public information? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From:"Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Correct - no way to tell who is bidding. The complete list of bidders is > public knowledge: > https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders > > Which counties those 271 bidders are bidding on is only known by the FCC > > Mark > > > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > > I assume the 14 or 15 bidders is a closely guarded secret? I can't begin to > think who would be able to pay 30k around here for that besides > Verizon/AT&T/Sprint... > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: > Note that the confidentiality and anti collusion rules apply for anyone who > filed the short form. Be very careful that what you say in here does not > violate the FCC rules. > > Everything discussed so far is from the public information the FCC is > releasing or from the auction public notice. > > To read the results Josh posted: > > The price does not include discounts - 75% of the posted price if you > qualified as being under 25M/year in revenue - so closer to 27k There is > also a rural provider credit. > > It reads: > > In the initial round the price of one 10Mhz PAL was $21,000 not counting any > discounts you may have been eligible for. There were 14 bids at that price, > with only 7 lots available. > In the second round the price of one PAL was $24,000 (less discounts). > There were 15 bids at that price, with only 7 available. > > In the 5th round the price for one PAL went up to $33,000 (less discounts) > with demand down to 10 PAL’s. The price went up for ALL 7 of the PAL’s. > > The price will keep going up until the demand is equal to 7. Once demand > gets to 7 there is still a posted price increase - but unless someone adds > additional demand the price will stay at the previous start of round price. > > The price/demand could sit at 7 for the next (insert number) of rounds and > then start going back up if another bidder decides they are priced out of one > county and want to move to another county. Or if they are just playing games. > > Once a county is at or above a demand for 7 PAL’s the price won’t go down. > If you get a PAL in a round and later decide you don’t want it, you are > stuck buying it unless someone else bids at the higher price. You can > change your demand to 0, saying you don’t want it anymore, but unless someone > else wants it you are stuck with it. Just like a normal auction - once you > are the winning bidder, you own it unless someone outbids you. > > For bidders there are required activity levels that you have to meet. > Essentially you have to bid 95% of your initial deposit on each round. If > you don’t bid that what you are allowed to bid in the next round goes down. > The rule is basically to keep bidders from sandbagging - if you haven’t been > bidding and are just waiting to see what others are going to do you will run > out of eligibility pretty quickly. > > Mark > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Cassidy B. Larson <c...@infowest.com> wrote: > > It’s up to 37k per 10mhz block. Demand is going down though! lol > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 08:22, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > > No idea how to read this: > > <image.png> > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > Josh, > > Is your county up to 30k per 10mhz block? > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:08 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote: > Assuming it's too late at this point to get into the initial rounds that are > taking place this week? > > Haven't really been keeping up with this. > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > I also lost track of the whole auction situation. Will there be another > round later? Seems like nobody bid on some of the counties around us, and I > wish I'd thrown in a minimum bid at this point. > > On 7/28/2020 12:40 AM, Steve Jones wrote: > Our starting bid was relatively inexpensive over the ten year term for our 5 > counties and 4 pals each. Almost had the boss talked into giving it serious > consideration so i could pull the trigger on the auction. then the world > ended and that got back burnered. byt the time we came back to it there was > no time to learn enough about the auction > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:54 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: > My guess is none... > > Im sooo sick of the BS games the FCC and 'BIG BOYZ' Are playing. > > So funny how they say "Sure anyone can get a pal" > > FCC should have shoved a big FU to all WISPs and just let us die. > > When I first saw the pricing on our county and surrounding countys for > bid I knew there was no chance. > > Let the lawsuits FLY... > > > On 7/27/2020 5:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: > > On 7/27/20 15:42, Mark Radabaugh wrote: > >> https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105 > >> > > > > > > I'm curious to see how many WISPs actually get a PAL when this is all > > done. > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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