The worst case scenario is when the power comes back on after an
extended outage. So the batts are going to present a heavy load plus
all your other loads.
I always doubled what I needed to run the loads by themselves and made
sure the current limiting would not exceed safe charging currents.
If the batts went too low, the voltage may not come back to
operational level until they have charged a bit. If you have a LVD on
the loads that will speed things up, assuming the LVD will reconnect,
but it must have enough hysteresis because when the loads attach the
voltage will drop again and if you don’t have enough hysteresis it
will oscillate and probably do ungood things to the loads.
That is why I quit using LVDs.
*From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 2:27 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
Let me see if I understand this. I get an AC/DC 48V power supply. We
have used DuraComm in the past. I wire the power supply directly to
the LFP battery pack and wire the power supply directly to the 48V
equipment. Does the LFP have logic in it to regulate the charging?
My guess is my power supply has to be rated higher than my equipment
demand by a few AMPs so it can charge batteries and run equipment. Is
there some way to limit charging AMPs on battery pack so it doesn't
over load the power supply?
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com <https://www.Myakka.com>
------
Thursday, January 4, 2024, 3:57:48 PM, you wrote:
I was talking about connecting the LFP pack straight to a current
limiting power supply and not using a battery charger.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:43 PM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
“the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current”
You don’t have to worry about that one. The charger won’t
draw more current than what is being consumed to charge the
batteries. I’d argue you should oversize the max current. If
the power supply can’t supply the current the chargers are
demanding then it’ll do whatever it’s over current fault
condition is….which might be current limiting, or shutting
down and waiting for you to power cycle. Oversize it so you
can supply the charger whatever it wants and you aren’t at
risk of over heating, tripping, or other badness.
PSU’s often get de-rated for temperature, and sometimes the
max current on the sticker is only for transient peak current
rather than continuous current. Make it bigger so it meets
all the demand on it and nothing bad happens even in
sub-optimal conditions.
-Adam
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *castarritt
*Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2024 11:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC
supplies with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other
charger. As long as I am using a power supply that will sag
voltage instead of trip offline when max current is reached,
the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate
value, I don't see why I need anything more. The LFP pack's
BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage
charge profiles with boost voltage on lithium packs. Am I
missing something here? So far, bossman has preferred just
playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know work,
so I haven't got to try it yet.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt
<castarr...@gmail.com> wrote:
We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP
Supplies and Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any
problems. The only downside is that the ICT shelf can't
read the state of charge or give your an estimated runtime
remaining with lithium batteries. I understand they won't
have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could at least
calculate AH in and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough
estimate.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini
<g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
We are having great success with signature solar units
and ICT rectifiers.
<https://aeronetpr.com/>
*Gino Villarini*
Founder / President
@GVillarini
787.273.4143 |
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
<https://twitter.com/aeronetpr>
<https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>
<https://wa.me/17872734144>
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg <https://store.homefi.pr/>
*From: *AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Mark
- Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com>
*Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did
this. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Felt I was
oversold un-needed over priced options. Trying to be
more careful this time.
Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of
rack mount batteries, but they all seem to be China
made. Can anyone recommend a brand they are using.
Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge
these guys. Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4
plant. I may have to stay with the Lead Acid stuff,
rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
edge.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Communications
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------
Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good
to 100% DOD, whereas we
PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD
if we want lifespan.. So
PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA>
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D&reserved=0
<http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-0000
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
PKvA> -----Original Message-----
PKvA> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of
Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
<af@af.afmug.com>
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all
ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
PKvA>
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epochbatteries.com%2Fproducts%2F12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate&data=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PKVNWn62PB%2Fp2ghr%2FCJDFp%2B9lKmlqyHk19SiqbLWBNI%3D&reserved=0
<https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate>
PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms
PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size. What some people call
a "truck battery". That's a
PKvA> lot of Ah. We have some 10+ year old old 8D
AGMs I think they are rated 225
PKvA> Ah. Heavy suckers. Just hauling them to the
recycler at EOL is a chore.
PKvA> -----Original Message-----
PKvA> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of
Peter Kranz via AF
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
<af@af.afmug.com>
PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the
string has a Battery ID set by
PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible
inverter/charger it polls each
PKvA> battery to pull data points of interest. Take a
look at this battery, it
PKvA> supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries
with battery ID's set by dip
PKvA> switch.
PKvA>
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsignaturesolar.com%2Feg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BksZawSZCzqdhwhfGqQ3uUWLAHjXnFuDunkKZDVu8dY%3D&reserved=0
<https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/>
PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA>
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931547004%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M7gx5YcVZFjwYmViVPgp3eab%2BrffEAxBLfeg4QwNL14%3D&reserved=0
<http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-0000
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
PKvA> -----Original Message-----
PKvA> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of
Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
<af@af.afmug.com>
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
PKvA> It's kind of an awkward situation. Suppose you
have 4 batteries total, each
PKvA> with their own internal BMS. Do you want to
monitor each battery? Maybe.
PKvA> My first impression is no. But perhaps knowing
that battery #3 has a
PKvA> problem would be a good thing, like your car
telling you all the tires are
PKvA> at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.
Chuck's forklift probably just
PKvA> has one battery (and no SNMP).
PKvA> -----Original Message-----
PKvA> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of
Bill Prince
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
PKvA> To: af@af.afmug.com
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
PKvA> Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP
adapter/converter or something.
PKvA> Nah, that would be too hard.
PKvA> bp
PKvA> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
PKvA> On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
>> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other
options than Bluetooth.
>> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with
LiFEPO4 batteries built
>> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest
to find, pretty
>> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some
inverter/rectifier shelf vendors
>> now support
>> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>>
>> Peter Kranz
>>
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931547004%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M7gx5YcVZFjwYmViVPgp3eab%2BrffEAxBLfeg4QwNL14%3D&reserved=0
<http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> Mobile: 510-207-0000
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Ken
Hohhof
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said.
Same here.
>>
>> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0
degrees C. But I'm
>> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and
temperature controls. Can't
>> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>>
>> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm
used to lots of
>> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of
the high end charge
>> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you
access the battery
>> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth?
Or is that just for
PKvA> initial commissioning?
>>
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
>> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'"
<af@af.afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but
that's just the
>> combination of conservatism and institutional
momentum. I'd look
PKvA> seriously at LiFePo4.
>> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd
look for battery
>> packs with a charge controller and management built
in. You can then
>> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or
whatever other
>> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just
let it serve as a
>> power supply and distribution device.
>>
>> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with
Lithium drop in
>> replacements with integrated controllers I can
eliminate the rectifier
>> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.
But there's that
>> institutional momentum thing again.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of
Mark - Myakka
>> Technologies
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> Happy New Year
>>
>> I need to build a new -48v power plant. Last one I
did was about 7
>> years ago. I know things have changed. Any
recommendations on
PKvA> manufacturers?
>> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the
standard telcomm
PKvA> batteries?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
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>>
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