Oh, I dont dismiss it completely, but it should not be in lieu of at minimum cost of living.
I have no clue though from an employee side what value to place on a pay increase "negotiation". I didnt give the details of the job I turned down I just left it at I didnt want to have the extended commute. Ive never been one of those strongarm people who says "What will you give me to stay" but everything I read about it basically says thats what you should do, negotiate and leverage everything. But I also know once you alter a dynamic with demands, you pay in the long run. I want another 30k a year every year but thats not realistic. I know our profits have increased at a pretty good clip so its not a recession issue. I know two of the 4 competitors in the area pay on average more than I make for less critical staff (critical being used loosely) I dont know what the other two pay. most of you owners know how you would take an employee walking in with unrealistic expectations, but ou also know that if youd be willing to offer up a foot and the employee asks for an inch, youre not going to argue On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Chuck Hogg via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > Providing Health Insurance is a nice bonus though...especially if he is > covering your whole family. My family insurance is friggin' expensive for > a family of 4! > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:57 PM, That One Guy via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > >> lol, hes not a dick, hes actually a pretty decent conservative capitalist >> christian. I started that conversation 4 months ago right after I turned >> down a much better paying job because of the commute. I got that job offer >> because I went to meet with a tech from another contract service provider >> who was taking over our contract, it turned out he wasnt a tech he was the >> owner of the company, apparently I clean up nice, when I went for the final >> closeout meeting it turned out to be an hour and a half interview. But >> afterward i started the whats the future direction of the company, what can >> I do in the company to give myself a financial and personal growth future >> in the company, conversation. I screwed up by divulging about half of my >> business plan if I was going to step out on my own, probably a bad idea. >> but I keep getting the well theres this and theres that and the i need to >> meet with x to discuss y and ill get back to you, the most I get out of him >> is we havent sold to Jab (which I dont want because theres no role for me >> if it happenned) and we arent closing the doors, and we might look at >> giving you a dollar and maybe some scheduled raises. >> >> I have two kids, a house, this broad that lives with me after making my >> babies.... a buck every 2.5 years isnt a great future. >> >> he had gotten insurance, which we did not have before, and initially I >> wrote that off as the equivalent as a raise, but the more I think about it, >> it was company wide, that isnt a retention thing, thats a business expense >> like the electric bill and bandwidth cost, and next year the contract >> expires and our coverage goes down, we get the option to buy back the >> difference.. no dental, I gave the tooth butcher 500 bucks yesterday that i >> had to borrow, cutting health isnt going to be made up for with 8 cents >> >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >> >>> Unless your boss is a dick (apparently a real possibility), a good >>> approach is to ask when your next review will be and what achievements or >>> metrics would qualify you for a bigger raise or a promotion. You are >>> setting him up. He says do X and you get a promotion and a raise, and you >>> do X. Makes it hard to deny you the reward, since he set the rules for the >>> game. He even gets the enjoyment of telling himself he motivated you to >>> achieve the goals he set, like getting a rat to run a maze in order to get >>> the cheese, when in fact you motivated him to give you a raise. >>> >>> *From:* That One Guy via Af <af@afmug.com> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:30 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] valuing a pay increase >>> >>> Yeah, Jab starts their phone techs at more than I make, but Im one of >>> those people that wont quit. >>> >>> Im pretty critical, but my employer is one that will just let things >>> fail and deal with the aftermath. Ive worked for the organization for 10 >>> years and this company for 5. Ive missed one deadline, the first in my >>> life, and that was when my dads family shop burned down and I had to take >>> some time off to dig through the rubble. They wouldnt find a person to >>> replace me directly, the routing/transit management would go to a 3rd party >>> consultant/contractor, they would rely on Powercode directly to manage that >>> and the associated hardware, They would contract our partner company to >>> manage the infrastructure builds, he would move from the inexpensive UBNT >>> type hardware on the backhaul network to licensed "set and forget" links, >>> specced out by vendors installed by contractors. The backend systems like >>> our DNS, internal messaging sytems, backup/archiving, etc would either fail >>> or be redesigned by a consultant and maintained under a contract. The >>> contract support side stuff like the windows server contracts he would pick >>> up the slack on for a bit and hand off any excess to our current 3rd party >>> consultant we use for big project assistance. All the extra stuff like >>> surveillance/dvr systems would go to the techs limited by their capacity. >>> Incidentals that pop up periodically like the FCC crap and ARIN interaction >>> would all be handled by the respective agency we deal with support staff. >>> Day to day maintenance would get neglected for the most part, then dealt >>> with in disaster mode by the associated vendor support avenues. New product >>> would be handles by the salesguys from the vendors. >>> >>> So realistically, I am very replaceable, with a pretty big upfront fee, >>> but probably in the long run the recurring cost would be less and an >>> inbound guy to fill my role would really only need to know which numbers to >>> call. So it could even be hes realized this and 8 cents is meant to be an >>> insult. >>> >>> In this industry in this economy, what kind of pay increases should a >>> guy deem fair? a penny more is a penny more >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af <af@afmug.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> How valueable of an employee are you? Could you leave tomorrow and he >>>> wouldn't notice a difference, or would all hell break lose? Would it >>>> take long to find somebody worth their salt to replace you. >>>> >>>> Can you quantify and list your achievements over the past 2.5 years? >>>> >>>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >>>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com >>>> On 10/02/2014 06:49 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote: >>>> >>>> im curious from the small business owner, which I assume most of you >>>> owners on the list consider yourselves, how do you value a pay increase? >>>> (assume its an employee that is worth their salt) >>>> Do you try to just keep it where the employee has the same spending >>>> power, ie just cost of living to match inflation, percentage based, profit >>>> based, set value? >>>> >>>> In discussions with the boss about future he mentioned a number, for >>>> shits and giggles I compared what my last raise is worth today. >>>> >>>> I havent had a raise in 2.5 years, and based on the government >>>> calculators what I make now was worth 80 cents more 2.5 years ago than it >>>> is now. >>>> >>>> The number he said was a dollar, which under normal curcumstances to po >>>> folk like me isnt a small raise. >>>> >>>> but when I looked at the numbers, that dollar only puts me 20 cents up >>>> on where I was 2.5 years ago, that 8 cents a year in increased purchasing >>>> power. >>>> >>>> That kind of boils down to an insult. Or is that the wrong way to look >>>> at the value of the potential pay increase? >>>> >>>> I have never believed in asking an employer for a raise, my thoughts >>>> have always been that an employer thats a good employer will pay you what >>>> they think your worth to them, apparently im worth 8 cents >>>> >>>> -- >>>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that >>>> the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you >>>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not >>>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the >>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you >>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not >>> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the >> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you >> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not >> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 >> > > -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
