Well no not on existing hardware, but it doesn't look like PMP450 can
do that either.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Ken Hohhof via Af" <af@afmug.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, October 20, 2014 12:22:39 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
On the existing hardware? At one time there were hints about 256QAM
and 40MHz channels, hence the GigE interface on the AP. They
delivered on 256QAM, I haven’t heard about 40 MHz in awhile, I doubt
80 MHz is under consideration. Also they needed a lot of firmware
optimization to get throughput to a single SM up to what the RF can do
now. So I’d guess even 100 Mbps to a single SM would take new hardware.
*From:* Mike Hammett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2014 12:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Well the Mimosa will deliver 620 megabits or so to two clients at the
same time, so 1,200+ total from one AP.
How much room is there for growth in 450? *shrugs* How long has it
been out and how much growth have you seen thus far?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Craig Schmaderer via Af" <af@afmug.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, October 20, 2014 12:10:16 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Is the 450 still only 20mhz and under? If they even can or do up it
to like 80mhz like mimosa is going to do, how close could the 450 get
to 600meg cap with just firmware upgrades? Any guesses?
/Craig R. Schmaderer/
/CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc./
/Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058/
/Direct: 402-372-1052/
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2014 10:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
I'm just glad to have fewer steps.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Josh Reynolds via Af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, October 20, 2014 1:36:26 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
The whole point of their waveguide idea was to remove the jumper loss.
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/19/2014 10:06 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Maybe RF Elements is onto something with their waveguide port
radios, extend using low loss elliptical waveguide and put the
radios inside a nice building or enclosure on the ground away from
the lighting.
*From:*Paul McCall via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:42 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
For us, the biggest issue is the replacement cost of the 450. NOT
the initial cost, that is what it is, but we are in the lightning
capital of the world. Sometimes we can repair everything that
gets hit and sometimes on a direct strike, we can’t repair any of
it. On most towers, we deploy 5 Ghz and 2.4 Ghz, so 8 APs each.
Some are only one frequency band, so then there are only 4. Say
those 4 APs are supporting 50 customers at $ 45 each… $ 2250 /
month. (most towers are a less than that and some are more). So,
if I lose $ 8K in APs ($ 2000 x 4) in one evening, I am looking at
least 4 months of lost revenue just to replace those APs (not
counting labor, etc.) We have had commercial, well-grounded
towers that get hit twice in a season, so that’s 8 months
(probably more like 10 months loss in real business terms) per
year. That makes NO sense to play that game.
And, again, a lot of towers have two frequency bands, thus 8 APs.
We have had 4 commercial towers out of 18 with total losses this
year on the APs. Thankfully, the used market on 100 series APs is
very low cost, so not nearly as big of an impact.
So, with ePMP APs (while maybe not as good as 450APs) I can at
least cut my losses by 80%. That’s a big deal !
Unfortunately, that reality forces my hands.
Paul
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino
Villarini via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:27 PM
*To:* mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
So it's Roy against the world of sync
Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini
On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see
everyone sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another
reason I don’t worry about GPS. My next article covers my
main reason.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Reynolds via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
LOL :)
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote:
I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Mike Hammett via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this
point used Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban
markets with 12 WISP competitors.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Mark Radabaugh via Af" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy
anything new. I suppose the good part for you is nobody
else can do anything given the amount of noise your making.
Mark
On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
You just hit the nail on the head why we have never
considered deploying 450 (and similar) in the past:
By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to
pay for those sectors, "we" (another relative term,
for people deploying UBNT or similar) have already
thrown up 4-6 shielded sectors and at least 10 clients
per. If we don't think we can hit a decent sub density
or at least make the site a valuable repeater, then we
don't go there.
Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>
On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote:
I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work
out. I'll put the omni in to get the site up and
once the customers are there change it to sectors.
The 450 platform is very easy to drop sectors in
and have the existing clients link right up. I
have a couple sites with existing customers i am
dropping a two sector 450 system in with 120
segree KP antennas. cant afford any more sectors
than that per site right now...
Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are
deploying omnis (presumably because they can't
afford 4 APs. Give me TDMA Atheros with
sectors over omnis on anything any day.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons
TJ,
No difference between the 3 different
frequencies bands (other than NLOS range) as
far as the product itself they are all the
same animal. 2.4ghz NLOS is slightly better
than 3.65ghhz. They all function the same and
have the same expected throughputs per channel
width. They all use the same firmware and i
love the interface being the same across all
3. The only major difference is the 5ghz is
V/H versus slant on the other two. That just
translates to the 5ghz omni being ALOT smaller
and lighter. There are some places that i wish
the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H because of the omni
size but overall I am still very happy with
the 2.4ghz 450.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via
Af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Kurt,
Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65
and 5? Any differences at all? Range vs
throughput? Obviously 2ghz penetrates better,
3 is licensed and 5 has more spectrum but
anything else? All bands are open for me
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt
Fankhauser via Af <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz,
5ghz, and 3.65ghz and then middle of the
summer deciding i had to"try" some ePMP
because the cost was so low I couldn't
resist.... I can say now that I am fairly
certain I will probably stick with the 450.
There are many small reasons that when I
considered them all i came to this conclusion.
Here are my reasons:
1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once
you have more than 10 clients on an AP. Once
you get over 20 clients the latency is pretty
much 25-30 ms. Cambium was honest about this
at the road tour and they noted if you want
the best latency to stick with the 450.
2. Sync between the two platforms is not there
yet. If you have adjacent towers on the
different platforms that can see each other
you won't have sync.
3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients.
This is HUGE for when the clients fire up
their wireless camera and baby monitors and
trash the whole spectrum.
4.No burst bucket on CPE's
5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained
at the tour they were offloading alot of
processing power to the PC you are viewing the
interface with and i can't be taking a quad
core machine up a tower to work on these
radios and do site surveys. I am working with
a Panasonic Toughbook and takes FOREVER to log
into the EPMP radios.
6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA
with ePMP. Think its a combination of many
factors here... slow interface one of them...
7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power
output. Something like 13-14db. When using an
omni antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP
out of the ePMP.
8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty
stable and predictable. EPMP seems like its
all over the place. I don't think I have yet
seen EPMP linktest get full up or down outside
of a lab environment.
There might be other reasons but I'm pretty
tired and was heading for bed.
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com <http://www.wavelinc.com/>
tel. 419-562-6405 <tel:419-562-6405>
fax. 419-617-0110 <tel:419-617-0110>
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via
Af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
I haven't been keeping real up to date on
current generation ptmp offerings but we have
a new site going up and I need to decide
pretty quickly on some equipment. For the guys
who have been using both 450 and epmp do you
have any pros and cons ? Any reason to spend
the extra money when epmp seems to have the
same if not better performance , sync, etc?
My gut says 450 is going to be my best long
term solution but with all of the positive
epmp feedback it's hard to justify the extra
money?
--
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> 419.837.5015 x 1021
