http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/120803-vortex-radio-waves-could-boost-wireless-capacity-infinitely
On Oct 20, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/startup-magnacom-hypes-spectrum-saving-alternative-qam/2013-12-17 > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway via Af > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 6:58 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > I’m not sure of your 100:1 usage ratio but keep this in mind, to extend the > life of DSL, CenturyLink is building Fiber to the Node to get closer which > allows them to sell 40Mbps service. Since you will be able to easily > deliver 500-1Gbps on a single AP (realistically, I’d be comfortable with the > 500Mbps to start), instead of delivering FTTH, deliver Fiber to the Node > (FTTN) and the use wireless for the last few hundred feet. If it was a bad > technical/business mode, Vivint wouldn’t be doing it. However, I don’t even > think FTTN is necessary in most areas based on what I know. Keep in mind > that 802.11ac CPE’s will be hitting 250Mbps or more. > > I don’t see 100mbps being needed for a few more years, as right now, 4K > NetFlix is the only real high bandwidth app on the near Horizon. Fiber is > great if you can amortize it but next generation wireless will be more > profitable in the short term. > > BTW, I just read that someone has already successfully tested 4096 and the > WAM guys are saying they are even better. Wireless isn’t even close to > hitting it’s limits. > > Rory > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi via Af > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 6:19 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > In parts of our suburban coverage NW of Chicago we cannot coordinate 6GHz or > 11GHz at some specific sites. What does the picture look like in 10 years > when we need to also feed hundreds and hundreds of micropops... To some > extent I'm not sure wireless will be a service for the masses. How do you > provide 50/10 service to all homes and businesses in a 3000 to 4000:1 > population density area? We are 100% wireless right now but it does seem > like fiber is the way things are going. Use the wireless to get a customer > base to convert later and then keep wireless as a premium product where > diversity is required. Until then we will continue to be a boutique player > in these areas. I am excited about the new tech coming out and I'm not > trying to say we won't take any advance in technology. It will help greatly > in low density areas but will future wireless scale to a true high density > area for someone who is going to take significant market share? > > For example 14000 population in 4 miles, 50% take rate, 7000 customers. > 50Mbps service. 100:1 usage ratio. Is that 3.5Gbps of usage using those > assumptions? Maybe, until you need to provide 100Mbps service much less > 1Gbps. I'd love for someone to make it possible without going down the fiber > route but it doesn't seem obvious to me right now that 100% wireless could > take the place of Comcast's Internet product in urban and suburban areas. > > Joe Falaschi > http://www.e-vergent.com > > > On 10/19/14, 11:09 PM, Tyler Treat via Af wrote: > What's your Backhaul strategy for having this many sites. How many hops do > you get from fiber? With a ton of small sites, it seems like it would scale > to an unmanageable level very quickly...? > > ___________________________ > Mangled by my iPhone. > ___________________________ > > Tyler Treat > Corn Belt Technologies, Inc. > > tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com > ___________________________ > > > On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:52 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > > +1. I’ve already hit CenturyLink’s fastest speeds with anemic little Rocket > 5M’s and nothing special. Imagine what happens when the Rocket AC or Mimosa > come out with their products. > Those features target the urban market where which I’ve seen numbers like 84% > of the population is and for the most part, WISPS aren’t. > > Rory > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:39 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > Microcells normally have good SNR. Add 802.11AC into the mix and you have > very good performance without the crappy latency hit. > > Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer > SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > On 10/19/2014 05:27 PM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote: > Then you miss out on the best performance. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > From: "Rory Conaway via Af" <af@afmug.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:33:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > Ahh, difference of philosophies. I just don’t want my business dependent on > competitors or single suppliers. > > Rory > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini via Af > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:27 PM > To: <af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > So it's Roy against the world of sync > > Gino A. Villarini > @gvillarini > > > > On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > > Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see everyone > sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another reason I don’t worry > about GPS. My next article covers my main reason. > > Rory > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > LOL :) > > Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer > SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote: > I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other? > > Rory > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this point used Mikrotik > and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets with 12 WISP competitors. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > From: "Mark Radabaugh via Af" <af@afmug.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy anything new. I > suppose the good part for you is nobody else can do anything given the amount > of noise your making. > > Mark > > On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote: > You just hit the nail on the head why we have never considered deploying 450 > (and similar) in the past: > > By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay for those sectors, > "we" (another relative term, for people deploying UBNT or similar) have > already thrown up 4-6 shielded sectors and at least 10 clients per. If we > don't think we can hit a decent sub density or at least make the site a > valuable repeater, then we don't go there. > Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer > SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote: > I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out. I'll put the omni in to > get the site up and once the customers are there change it to sectors. The > 450 platform is very easy to drop sectors in and have the existing clients > link right up. I have a couple sites with existing customers i am dropping a > two sector 450 system in with 120 segree KP antennas. cant afford any more > sectors than that per site right now... > > Sent from my iPhone > > Kurt Fankhauser > Wavelinc Communications > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > http://www.wavelinc.com > tel. 419-562-6405 > fax. 419-617-0110 > > On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > > I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying omnis (presumably because > they can't afford 4 APs. Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over omnis on > anything any day. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > From: "Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <af@afmug.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > TJ, > > No difference between the 3 different frequencies bands (other than NLOS > range) as far as the product itself they are all the same animal. 2.4ghz NLOS > is slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They all function the same and have the > same expected throughputs per channel width. They all use the same firmware > and i love the interface being the same across all 3. The only major > difference is the 5ghz is V/H versus slant on the other two. That just > translates to the 5ghz omni being ALOT smaller and lighter. There are some > places that i wish the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H because of the omni size but > overall I am still very happy with the 2.4ghz 450. > > > Kurt Fankhauser > Wavelinc Communications > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > http://www.wavelinc.com > tel. 419-562-6405 > fax. 419-617-0110 > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > Kurt, > > Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and 5? Any differences at all? > Range vs throughput? Obviously 2ghz penetrates better, 3 is licensed and 5 > has more spectrum but anything else? All bands are open for me > > Thanks > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and 3.65ghz and then > middle of the summer deciding i had to"try" some ePMP because the cost was so > low I couldn't resist.... I can say now that I am fairly certain I will > probably stick with the 450. There are many small reasons that when I > considered them all i came to this conclusion. Here are my reasons: > > 1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you have more than 10 clients on > an AP. Once you get over 20 clients the latency is pretty much 25-30 ms. > Cambium was honest about this at the road tour and they noted if you want the > best latency to stick with the 450. > 2. Sync between the two platforms is not there yet. If you have adjacent > towers on the different platforms that can see each other you won't have sync. > 3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This is HUGE for when the clients > fire up their wireless camera and baby monitors and trash the whole spectrum. > 4.No burst bucket on CPE's > 5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at the tour they were > offloading alot of processing power to the PC you are viewing the interface > with and i can't be taking a quad core machine up a tower to work on these > radios and do site surveys. I am working with a Panasonic Toughbook and takes > FOREVER to log into the EPMP radios. > 6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with ePMP. Think its a > combination of many factors here... slow interface one of them... > 7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power output. Something like 13-14db. > When using an omni antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP out of the ePMP. > 8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty stable and predictable. EPMP > seems like its all over the place. I don't think I have yet seen EPMP > linktest get full up or down outside of a lab environment. > > There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired and was heading for bed. > > > Kurt Fankhauser > Wavelinc Communications > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > http://www.wavelinc.com > tel. 419-562-6405 > fax. 419-617-0110 > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: > I haven't been keeping real up to date on current generation ptmp offerings > but we have a new site going up and I need to decide pretty quickly on some > equipment. For the guys who have been using both 450 and epmp do you have any > pros and cons ? Any reason to spend the extra money when epmp seems to have > the same if not better performance , sync, etc? > My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term solution but with all of the > positive epmp feedback it's hard to justify the extra money? > > > > > > > > -- > Mark Radabaugh > Amplex > > m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021 > > > > >
