Cambium event last Monday. 455 is likely to be what they use for the new 900 variant.
PC Blaze Broadband On October 20, 2014 2:34:02 PM EDT, Mike Hammett via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >Where is all of this 455 stuff coming from? I didn't hear anything of >it out in Vegas. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Paul Conlin via Af" <af@afmug.com> >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:29:14 PM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > >Oh, and an ARM coprocessor to go along with the FPGA. Forgot that >little detail. > >PC >Blaze Broadband > > > >On October 20, 2014 1:38:58 PM EDT, Paul Conlin via Af <af@afmug.com> >wrote: > > > >Yes, as I understand it. Bigger CPU and also an improved RF front end. >Don’t worry, they are insistent it will leave no 450SM behind. I’m >thinking the 450AP will be phased out, however. > > > >PC > >Blaze Broadband > > > > > > > > >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince via Af >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:31 PM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >At some point (soon?) the 450 SM needs a processor boost. Is that what >the PMP455 is all about? > > > >bp > > >On 10/20/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote: > ><blockquote> > > >Well no not on existing hardware, but it doesn't look like PMP450 can >do that either. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" <af@afmug.com> >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 12:22:39 PM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >On the existing hardware? At one time there were hints about 256QAM and >40MHz channels, hence the GigE interface on the AP. They delivered on >256QAM, I haven’t heard about 40 MHz in awhile, I doubt 80 MHz is under >consideration. Also they needed a lot of firmware optimization to get >throughput to a single SM up to what the RF can do now. So I’d guess >even 100 Mbps to a single SM would take new hardware. > > > > > > > > >From: Mike Hammett via Af > > >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 12:13 PM > > >To: af@afmug.com > > >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > > > >Well the Mimosa will deliver 620 megabits or so to two clients at the >same time, so 1,200+ total from one AP. > >How much room is there for growth in 450? *shrugs* How long has it been >out and how much growth have you seen thus far? > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Craig Schmaderer via Af" <af@afmug.com> >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 12:10:16 PM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > >Is the 450 still only 20mhz and under? If they even can or do up it to >like 80mhz like mimosa is going to do, how close could the 450 get to >600meg cap with just firmware upgrades? Any guesses? > > > > >Craig R. Schmaderer > >CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc. > >Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058 > >Direct: 402-372-1052 > > > > > >From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via >Af >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 10:25 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >I'm just glad to have fewer steps. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > >From: "Josh Reynolds via Af" < af@afmug.com > >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:36:26 AM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > >The whole point of their waveguide idea was to remove the jumper loss. > > >Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > >On 10/19/2014 10:06 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote: > ><blockquote> > > > > >Maybe RF Elements is onto something with their waveguide port radios, >extend using low loss elliptical waveguide and put the radios inside a >nice building or enclosure on the ground away from the lighting. > > > > > > > > >From: Paul McCall via Af > > >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:42 PM > > >To: af@afmug.com > > >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > > >For us, the biggest issue is the replacement cost of the 450. NOT the >initial cost, that is what it is, but we are in the lightning capital >of the world. Sometimes we can repair everything that gets hit and >sometimes on a direct strike, we can’t repair any of it. On most >towers, we deploy 5 Ghz and 2.4 Ghz, so 8 APs each. Some are only one >frequency band, so then there are only 4. Say those 4 APs are >supporting 50 customers at $ 45 each… $ 2250 / month. (most towers are >a less than that and some are more). So, if I lose $ 8K in APs ($ 2000 >x 4) in one evening, I am looking at least 4 months of lost revenue >just to replace those APs (not counting labor, etc.) We have had >commercial, well-grounded towers that get hit twice in a season, so >that’s 8 months (probably more like 10 months loss in real business >terms) per year. That makes NO sense to play that game. > > > >And, again, a lot of towers have two frequency bands, thus 8 APs. We >have had 4 commercial towers out of 18 with total losses this year on >the APs. Thankfully, the used market on 100 series APs is very low >cost, so not nearly as big of an impact. > > > >So, with ePMP APs (while maybe not as good as 450APs) I can at least >cut my losses by 80%. That’s a big deal ! > > > >Unfortunately, that reality forces my hands. > > > >Paul > > > > > > > >From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini >via Af >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:27 PM >To: mailto:af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >So it's Roy against the world of sync > >Gino A. Villarini > > >@gvillarini > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af < af@afmug.com > >wrote: > ><blockquote> > > >Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see everyone >sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another reason I don’t >worry about GPS. My next article covers my main reason. > > > >Rory > > > > > >From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via >Af >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >LOL :) > > >Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > >On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote: > ><blockquote> > >I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other? > > > >Rory > > > > > >From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via >Af >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > > > >Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this point used >Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets with 12 WISP >competitors. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > >From: "Mark Radabaugh via Af" < af@afmug.com > >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > >And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy anything new. >I suppose the good part for you is nobody else can do anything given >the amount of noise your making. > >Mark > >On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote: > ><blockquote> > > >You just hit the nail on the head why we have never considered >deploying 450 (and similar) in the past: > >By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay for those >sectors, "we" (another relative term, for people deploying UBNT or >similar) have already thrown up 4-6 shielded sectors and at least 10 >clients per. If we don't think we can hit a decent sub density or at >least make the site a valuable repeater, then we don't go there. > > >Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com > >On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote: > ><blockquote> > > >I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out. I'll put the omni >in to get the site up and once the customers are there change it to >sectors. The 450 platform is very easy to drop sectors in and have the >existing clients link right up. I have a couple sites with existing >customers i am dropping a two sector 450 system in with 120 segree KP >antennas. cant afford any more sectors than that per site right now... > >Sent from my iPhone > > > > > >Kurt Fankhauser > > >Wavelinc Communications > > >P.O. Box 126 > > >Bucyrus, OH 44820 > > >http://www.wavelinc.com > > >tel. 419-562-6405 > > >fax. 419-617-0110 > > > >On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af < af@afmug.com > >wrote: > ><blockquote> > > > >I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying omnis (presumably >because they can't afford 4 APs. Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over >omnis on anything any day. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > >From: "Kurt Fankhauser via Af" < af@afmug.com > >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > > >TJ, > > > > > >No difference between the 3 different frequencies bands (other than >NLOS range) as far as the product itself they are all the same animal. >2.4ghz NLOS is slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They all function the >same and have the same expected throughputs per channel width. They all >use the same firmware and i love the interface being the same across >all 3. The only major difference is the 5ghz is V/H versus slant on the >other two. That just translates to the 5ghz omni being ALOT smaller and >lighter. There are some places that i wish the 2.4ghz woulda been V/H >because of the omni size but overall I am still very happy with the >2.4ghz 450. > > > > > > > > > > > >Kurt Fankhauser > >Wavelinc Communications > >P.O. Box 126 > >Bucyrus, OH 44820 > >http://www.wavelinc.com > >tel. 419-562-6405 > >fax. 419-617-0110 > > > > >On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af < af@afmug.com > >wrote: > > >Kurt, > > > > > >Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and 5? Any differences at >all? Range vs throughput? Obviously 2ghz penetrates better, 3 is >licensed and 5 has more spectrum but anything else? All bands are open >for me > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af < af@afmug.com >> wrote: > > >I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and 3.65ghz and >then middle of the summer deciding i had to"try" some ePMP because the >cost was so low I couldn't resist.... I can say now that I am fairly >certain I will probably stick with the 450. There are many small >reasons that when I considered them all i came to this conclusion. Here >are my reasons: > > > > > >1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you have more than 10 >clients on an AP. Once you get over 20 clients the latency is pretty >much 25-30 ms. Cambium was honest about this at the road tour and they >noted if you want the best latency to stick with the 450. > > >2. Sync between the two platforms is not there yet. If you have >adjacent towers on the different platforms that can see each other you >won't have sync. > > >3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This is HUGE for when the >clients fire up their wireless camera and baby monitors and trash the >whole spectrum. > > >4.No burst bucket on CPE's > > >5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at the tour they were >offloading alot of processing power to the PC you are viewing the >interface with and i can't be taking a quad core machine up a tower to >work on these radios and do site surveys. I am working with a Panasonic >Toughbook and takes FOREVER to log into the EPMP radios. > > >6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with ePMP. Think its a >combination of many factors here... slow interface one of them... > > >7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power output. Something like >13-14db. When using an omni antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP >out of the ePMP. > > >8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty stable and predictable. >EPMP seems like its all over the place. I don't think I have yet seen >EPMP linktest get full up or down outside of a lab environment. > > > > > >There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired and was heading for >bed. > > > > > > > > > > > >Kurt Fankhauser > >Wavelinc Communications > >P.O. Box 126 > >Bucyrus, OH 44820 > >http://www.wavelinc.com > >tel. 419-562-6405 > >fax. 419-617-0110 > > > > >On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af < af@afmug.com > >wrote: > >I haven't been keeping real up to date on current generation ptmp >offerings but we have a new site going up and I need to decide pretty >quickly on some equipment. For the guys who have been using both 450 >and epmp do you have any pros and cons ? Any reason to spend the extra >money when epmp seems to have the same if not better performance , >sync, etc? > >My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term solution but with all >of the positive epmp feedback it's hard to justify the extra money? > > > > > > > > > > > ></blockquote> > > > ></blockquote> > > >-- >Mark Radabaugh >Amplex > >m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021 > > > ></blockquote> > > > ></blockquote> > ></blockquote> > > > > > > > > > > ></blockquote> > > > ></blockquote>
