A new 900 variant is exciting to me!
On Monday, October 20, 2014 1:44 PM, Mike Hammett via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: Oh. I was a little late and no one brought it up to me when I asked if anything excited was announced... unless it's not exciting. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Paul Conlin via Af" <af@afmug.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:41:56 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons Cambium event last Monday. 455 is likely to be what they use for the new 900 variant. PC Blaze Broadband On October 20, 2014 2:34:02 PM EDT, Mike Hammett via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: Where is all of this 455 stuff coming from? I didn't hear anything of it out in Vegas. > > > > >----- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > >________________________________ > >From: "Paul Conlin via Af" <af@afmug.com> >To: af@afmug.com >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:29:14 PM >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons > >Oh, and an ARM coprocessor to go along with the FPGA. Forgot that little >detail. > >PC >Blaze Broadband > > > >On October 20, 2014 1:38:58 PM EDT, Paul Conlin via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >Yes, as I understand it. Bigger CPU and also an improved RF front end. Don’t >worry, they are insistent it will leave no 450SM behind. I’m thinking the >450AP will be phased out, however. >> >>PC >>Blaze Broadband >> >> >>From:Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince via Af >>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:31 PM >>To: af@afmug.com >>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >> >>At some point (soon?) the 450 SM needs a processor boost. Is that what the >>PMP455 is all about? >> >> >> >>bp >> >>On 10/20/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote: >>Well no not on existing hardware, but it doesn't look like PMP450 can do that >>either. >>> >>> >>>----- >>>Mike Hammett >>>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> >>>From: "Ken Hohhof via Af" <af@afmug.com> >>>To: af@afmug.com >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 12:22:39 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>On the existing hardware? At one time there were hints about 256QAM and >>>40MHz channels, hence the GigE interface on the AP. They delivered on >>>256QAM, I haven’t heard about 40 MHz in awhile, I doubt 80 MHz is under >>>consideration. Also they needed a lot of firmware optimization to get >>>throughput to a single SM up to what the RF can do now. So I’d guess even >>>100 Mbps to a single SM would take new hardware. >>> >>>From:Mike Hammett via Af >>>Sent:Monday, October 20, 2014 12:13 PM >>>To:af@afmug.com >>>Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>> >>>Well the Mimosa will deliver 620 megabits or so to two clients at the same >>>time, so 1,200+ total from one AP. >>> >>>How much room is there for growth in 450? *shrugs* How long has it been out >>>and how much growth have you seen thus far? >>> >>> >>>----- >>>Mike Hammett >>>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> >>>From: "Craig Schmaderer via Af" <af@afmug.com> >>>To: af@afmug.com >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 12:10:16 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>Is the 450 still only 20mhz and under? If they even can or do up it to >>>like 80mhz like mimosa is going to do, how close could the 450 get to 600meg >>>cap with just firmware upgrades? Any guesses? >>> >>>Craig R. Schmaderer >>>CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc. >>>Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058 >>>Direct: 402-372-1052 >>> >>>From:Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 10:25 AM >>>To: af@afmug.com >>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>> >>>I'm just glad to have fewer steps. >>> >>> >>>----- >>>Mike Hammett >>>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> >>>From: "Josh Reynolds via Af" <af@afmug.com> >>>To: af@afmug.com >>>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:36:26 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>The whole point of their waveguide idea was to remove the jumper loss. >>>Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >>>SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com >>>On 10/19/2014 10:06 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote: >>>Maybe RF Elements is onto something with their waveguide port radios, extend >>>using low loss elliptical waveguide and put the radios inside a nice >>>building or enclosure on the ground away from the lighting. >>>> >>>>From:Paul McCall via Af >>>>Sent:Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:42 PM >>>>To:af@afmug.com >>>>Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>> >>>>For us, the biggest issue is the replacement cost of the 450. NOT the >>>>initial cost, that is what it is, but we are in the lightning capital of >>>>the world. Sometimes we can repair everything that gets hit and sometimes >>>>on a direct strike, we can’t repair any of it. On most towers, we deploy 5 >>>>Ghz and 2.4 Ghz, so 8 APs each. Some are only one frequency band, so then >>>>there are only 4. Say those 4 APs are supporting 50 customers at $ 45 >>>>each… $ 2250 / month. (most towers are a less than that and some are more). >>>> So, if I lose $ 8K in APs ($ 2000 x 4) in one evening, I am looking at >>>>least 4 months of lost revenue just to replace those APs (not counting >>>>labor, etc.) We have had commercial, well-grounded towers that get hit >>>>twice in a season, so that’s 8 months (probably more like 10 months loss in >>>>real business terms) per year. That makes NO sense to play that game. >>>> >>>>And, again, a lot of towers have two frequency bands, thus 8 APs. We have >>>>had 4 commercial towers out of 18 with total losses this year on the APs. >>>>Thankfully, the used market on 100 series APs is very low cost, so not >>>>nearly as big of an impact. >>>> >>>>So, with ePMP APs (while maybe not as good as 450APs) I can at least cut my >>>>losses by 80%. That’s a big deal ! >>>> >>>>Unfortunately, that reality forces my hands. >>>> >>>>Paul >>>> >>>> >>>>From:Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini via Af >>>>Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:27 PM >>>>To: mailto:af@afmug.com >>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>> >>>>So it's Roy against the world of sync >>>> >>>>Gino A. Villarini >>>>@gvillarini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>>>Yea, I covered that in one of my articles. I just didn’t see everyone >>>>sitting around the campfire singing Kumbya. Another reason I don’t worry >>>>about GPS. My next article covers my main reason. >>>>> >>>>>Rory >>>>> >>>>>From:Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds via Af >>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:56 PM >>>>>To: af@afmug.com >>>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>>> >>>>>LOL :) >>>>>Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >>>>>SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com >>>>>On 10/19/2014 08:13 AM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote: >>>>>I’m assuming all 12 WISPs cooperate with each other? >>>>>> >>>>>>Rory >>>>>> >>>>>>From:Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af >>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:33 AM >>>>>>To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>>>> >>>>>>Entirely not true spoken by a WISP that has up until this point used >>>>>>Mikrotik and Ubiquiti in rural and suburban markets with 12 WISP >>>>>>competitors. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>----- >>>>>>Mike Hammett >>>>>>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>From: "Mark Radabaugh via Af" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:52:03 PM >>>>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>>>>And now your completely out of spectrum and can't deploy anything new. I >>>>>>suppose the good part for you is nobody else can do anything given the >>>>>>amount of noise your making. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mark >>>>>> >>>>>>On 10/18/14, 1:27 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote: >>>>>>You just hit the nail on the head why we have never considered deploying >>>>>>450 (and similar) in the past: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>By the time "you" (relative term) have the cashflow to pay for those >>>>>>>sectors, "we" (another relative term, for people deploying UBNT or >>>>>>>similar) have already thrown up 4-6 shielded sectors and at least 10 >>>>>>>clients per. If we don't think we can hit a decent sub density or at >>>>>>>least make the site a valuable repeater, then we don't go there. >>>>>>>Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer >>>>>>>SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com >>>>>>>On 10/18/2014 09:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af wrote: >>>>>>>I prefer sectors too but math doesnt always work out. I'll put the omni >>>>>>>in to get the site up and once the customers are there change it to >>>>>>>sectors. The 450 platform is very easy to drop sectors in and have the >>>>>>>existing clients link right up. I have a couple sites with existing >>>>>>>customers i am dropping a two sector 450 system in with 120 segree KP >>>>>>>antennas. cant afford any more sectors than that per site right now... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>>Wavelinc Communications >>>>>>>>P.O. Box 126 >>>>>>>>Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>>>>>>http://www.wavelinc.com >>>>>>>>tel. 419-562-6405 >>>>>>>>fax. 419-617-0110 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>I've noticed a lot of PMP operators are deploying omnis (presumably >>>>>>>>because they can't afford 4 APs. Give me TDMA Atheros with sectors over >>>>>>>>omnis on anything any day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>----- >>>>>>>>>Mike Hammett >>>>>>>>>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>>>>http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>From: "Kurt Fankhauser via Af" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>>To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:38:14 AM >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pmp450 vs epmp pros vs cons >>>>>>>>>TJ, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No difference between the 3 different frequencies bands (other than >>>>>>>>>NLOS range) as far as the product itself they are all the same animal. >>>>>>>>>2.4ghz NLOS is slightly better than 3.65ghhz. They all function the >>>>>>>>>same and have the same expected throughputs per channel width. They >>>>>>>>>all use the same firmware and i love the interface being the same >>>>>>>>>across all 3. The only major difference is the 5ghz is V/H versus >>>>>>>>>slant on the other two. That just translates to the 5ghz omni being >>>>>>>>>ALOT smaller and lighter. There are some places that i wish the 2.4ghz >>>>>>>>>woulda been V/H because of the omni size but overall I am still very >>>>>>>>>happy with the 2.4ghz 450. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>>>Wavelinc Communications >>>>>>>>>P.O. Box 126 >>>>>>>>>Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>>>>>>>http://www.wavelinc.com >>>>>>>>>tel. 419-562-6405 >>>>>>>>>fax. 419-617-0110 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 4:57 AM, TJ Trout via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>Kurt, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Any pros and cons on 450 between 2ghz, 3.65 and 5? Any differences at >>>>>>>>>all? Range vs throughput? Obviously 2ghz penetrates better, 3 is >>>>>>>>>licensed and 5 has more spectrum but anything else? All bands are open >>>>>>>>>for me >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser via Af >>>>>>>>><af@afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>I started the spring deploying 450 in 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and 3.65ghz and >>>>>>>>>then middle of the summer deciding i had to"try" some ePMP because the >>>>>>>>>cost was so low I couldn't resist.... I can say now that I am fairly >>>>>>>>>certain I will probably stick with the 450. There are many small >>>>>>>>>reasons that when I considered them all i came to this conclusion. >>>>>>>>>Here are my reasons: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>1. ePMP latency starts to go up quickly once you have more than 10 >>>>>>>>>clients on an AP. Once you get over 20 clients the latency is pretty >>>>>>>>>much 25-30 ms. Cambium was honest about this at the road tour and they >>>>>>>>>noted if you want the best latency to stick with the 450. >>>>>>>>>2. Sync between the two platforms is not there yet. If you have >>>>>>>>>adjacent towers on the different platforms that can see each other you >>>>>>>>>won't have sync. >>>>>>>>>3. No remote spectrum analyzer for clients. This is HUGE for when the >>>>>>>>>clients fire up their wireless camera and baby monitors and trash the >>>>>>>>>whole spectrum. >>>>>>>>>4.No burst bucket on CPE's >>>>>>>>>5.EPMP Interface is SLOWWW. Cambium explained at the tour they were >>>>>>>>>offloading alot of processing power to the PC you are viewing the >>>>>>>>>interface with and i can't be taking a quad core machine up a tower to >>>>>>>>>work on these radios and do site surveys. I am working with a >>>>>>>>>Panasonic Toughbook and takes FOREVER to log into the EPMP radios. >>>>>>>>>6. Fore some reason site surveys are a PITA with ePMP. Think its a >>>>>>>>>combination of many factors here... slow interface one of them... >>>>>>>>>7. EPMP in 5ghz DFS band has really low power output. Something like >>>>>>>>>13-14db. When using an omni antenna you can't get maximum legal EIRP >>>>>>>>>out of the ePMP. >>>>>>>>>8. 450 link tests and SM modulation is pretty stable and predictable. >>>>>>>>>EPMP seems like its all over the place. I don't think I have yet seen >>>>>>>>>EPMP linktest get full up or down outside of a lab environment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>There might be other reasons but I'm pretty tired and was heading for >>>>>>>>>bed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>>>Wavelinc Communications >>>>>>>>>P.O. Box 126 >>>>>>>>>Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>>>>>>>http://www.wavelinc.com >>>>>>>>>tel. 419-562-6405 >>>>>>>>>fax. 419-617-0110 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>I haven't been keeping real up to date on current generation ptmp >>>>>>>>>offerings but we have a new site going up and I need to decide pretty >>>>>>>>>quickly on some equipment. For the guys who have been using both 450 >>>>>>>>>and epmp do you have any pros and cons ? Any reason to spend the extra >>>>>>>>>money when epmp seems to have the same if not better performance , >>>>>>>>>sync, etc? >>>>>>>>>My gut says 450 is going to be my best long term solution but with all >>>>>>>>>of the positive epmp feedback it's hard to justify the extra money? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Mark Radabaugh >>>>>>Amplex >>>>>> >>>>>>m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021 >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
