Interesting article (spoiler alert – contains actual facts):
http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook
Some tidbits from the article:
- there are more gun suicides than gun homicides in America
- mass shootings aren’t getting more common – and are a tiny share of all
shootings
- a tiny fraction of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill
Oh, and BTW, suicide attempts usually fail, and the person gets treatment.
Except suicide attempts with firearms which have a high success rate. Like my
brother in law who blew his brains out in the kitchen for his family to find.
From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:37 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I thought it was interesting when I drove to Chicago a few weeks ago, that
everyone seemed to drive faster on i90 in the 55mph construction zones than
they do where it's 70mph...
I don't think anyone has too much of a problem with keeping the real crazies
from having guns, but I don't really see how it would be possible to stop most
of these guys without taking rights away from all of us. I personally don't
want to live in a country where people can lose their rights just because
someone thinks that they're a little odd... which is about all that anyone had
to say about most of these mass shooters before the fact, as far as I've seen.
Even if you were required to take some kind of test and get a license to buy a
gun, I would bet most of these guys would've passed any reasonable test.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:53 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
We have this in Illinois. You get a ticket, then you have to retake at least
the written test when you go to renew your license. I haven't had more than one
ticket in 12 years or so, and that was just seatbelt as I went a block from the
gas station back to the office. And apparently that doesn't count as one of the
retest requirements, but the last time I went to renew, I was randomly selected
for the written test. I missed one question, some stupid sign.
I have astigmatism and I never, ever drive without correction.
Yes, I do the speed limit, and if other drivers don't like it, then they can
go around. If you ride my ass, I let off the gas. Go ahead, hit me and see what
happens.
What's really disgusting are the semi trucks passing me when I'm doing the
speed limit. Those assholes need to be stripped of their CDLs. During
construction on I55 by me, there were something like 10 people killed by truck
drivers breaking the speed limit and not paying attention.
People do stupid things with vehicles the same as they do stupid things with
guns, or knives, or baseball bats, or drugs, or you name it. Forrest Gump said
it best, "stupid is as stupid does." Crazy is a different story, but I have my
rights and they have theirs as well. If anyone comes up with a good solution to
the crazies, I'm sure reasonable people will listen and debate. If only an
accusation leads to someone's rights being stripped without due process, that
ain't gonna fly with me. And please stop with the nonsense that the NRA and
Republicans are all hardliners on this. You're hearing that from the media that
only quote the fringe because it's their agenda. Guns aren't going away, so
forget about that.
On 10/10/2015 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop wrote:
I dunno...
I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't allowed to
drive. They need to retest or something every decade or so, maybe just once
they get more than one violation. I don't know, but too many people drive like
idiots just to get to the red light one second faster than the next guy. Maybe
they just all need to get off their butts and build a race car, get it out of
their system.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathew Howard
To: af
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we had
the same requirements to be able to drive, half the population wouldn't have
any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need to go) everyday. Thousands
of lives would be saved every year from the reduction in traffic deaths, but
I'm pretty sure there would be very, very little support from anyone for
changing our driving standards to something similar to what Germany has.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com>
wrote:
I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege
to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German
drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right.
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even middle
lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their indicator. And of
course, Germans respect that government has a job and is not the enemy, so they
don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a result, Germany has MUCH better
roads than we do. Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and better
banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more of Interstate, so we do
have a harder job. Still. Also, you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has
strict inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on
safe functioning.
We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we don’t
need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained,
and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should focus less on
cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are nationally famous for
bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.
Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and
Germany. A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go
around.” Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic
responsibility. Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being
“against freedom” and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how
the Germans behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high premium
on civic responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as
one functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
- Patrick
On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another.
While I would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than
in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in
my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
account. Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is
ok on highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were
obtained in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would
allow. The weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these
situations.
Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three
guns myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm
than it is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander
Mountain and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I
walked out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what
if I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that
easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.
I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the
crazy Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter
gun control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.
If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access
to guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own
a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be
allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not
belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk
around while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I
think they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try
to realize you don't need a machine gun.
The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That
means more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily
identify and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more
easily target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad"
people as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun
control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able
to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini <ginovi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want. Heck then
free all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the
whole reasoning behind laws. Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
wrote:
There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun
love" in US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very
restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave
the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp.
with kids around.
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce
it. If I need a weapon I call for police or security.
--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
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