Thanks very much - much appreciate this ... Optical stuff has always been a "weak area" for me ... worked around them for years but 'spoiled' that we added X, Y, and Z per vendor recommendations along with a web interface and things just worked ;)
My comments re: colored optics though were very specific to what I consider an "active" solution. A solution where we wouldn't have to put the colored optics specifically into switches on each side for example - realizing that the optics in the "solution" do the actual work .. I'm seen some passive systems where you have to put colored optics into your network gear for example. Those systems were pretty cool though in the sense where you didn't have to power them at all - but that's not what we want to accomplish here .. a number of these fibers we don't "own" both ends for example. Using an 'active' solution we can jump into the middle of the fiber no problem but for handoff to the network itself we need "standard" optics in place. For distance, this two locations with two paths so a ring topology .... one path is 1.1KM and the other path is approximately 3.2KM in length (geographic diversity between locations, separate cable entranceways, separate risers etc) so nice short run. Today we are just using 10KM single mode optics but burning fibers at a rapid rate .... Any particular vendors of the passive MUX, colored optics etc that you prefer and have worked well? It sounds like the costs are mainly the electronics to take the colored paths and "convert" them back to normal wavelength if I'm not missing something... Again - thanks ... appreciate this and really like the "build your own" approach ... with savings expected it makes it easier to look at sparing etc too Paul -----Original Message----- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: August 14, 2016 1:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear I just want to drill down, for the sake of an in-depth conversation, not just for you but for others who are lurking as well... see my answers inline below:- Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Stewart" <p...@paulstewart.org> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 12:32:57 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear > Thanks for that.... > > We want something managed and can be monitored ... There is no difference, or anything lost, in this arena, between an 'Active Solution' vs a "designed/yourself passive" solution. > modular in nature if possible. There is no "Canned solution" that can beat the a 'designed passive solution' in this area. > Thinking active as the "endpoints" (routers and/or switches) we do not want > to utilize colored optics nor can we support it in some situations ... > so MUX for sure. > I think you are mis-understand how this actually works/gets implemented... All CWDM/DWDM solutions have a passive fiber Mux/Demux in the box, the only difference is what you see (out side the box) as optic options. e.g. each side just looks like this...... (passive mux/demux)---> {(Colored optics <--> SMF Optics)in a managed Media Converter} (One can use a managed modular media converter or a managed switch for this). > While we operate a WISP, this is part of our core network in one city > between two data centers so we want high quality There is nothing 'lost' or 'gained' in this area, only the perception of what is under the hood. > with a lower than we're used to price tag :) We would start with > 40x10G likely and see how it goes Be prepaid for some serious pain to the wallet for lots of marketing BS to justify that from those selling canned solutions. Also pay attention to the Cost and power range of the required optics, (do you power budget calcs due to insertion loss) My suggestion would be as follows:- For a moment, forget about which solution you are going to buy, take a bit of time to 'engineer' a passive solution, and just pencil in the figures, for all the components... Use this as a baseline to value the solution you are actually looking to buy, or negotiate for... (when I do such an exercise, 40c DWDM mux/demux units are running less than $2k each, low insertion loss units(3-4.5db), 100mhz channels, Colored optics (15db margin) are under $300 each. You can add 10g SFP+/SFP+ media converter for each side ($900each) or you can add your favorite brand of 10g 48 port switches to each side ...(running anything between $1000 to $1500 on the 2ndary markets). This would help in establish the value proposition and make you comfortable with what you end up going with. > > > Thanks! > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz > Sent: August 14, 2016 11:16 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear > > Technically speaking, there is no magic to CWDM or DWDM solution.... > You can go with a 'canned' solution from folks such as Ciena/Cisco/etc > etc etc or you can create your own with the required pieces, in the > simplest form all one needs is couple of passive Mux/Demux units, > colored optics and a Switch/Media Converters (ones that you can read the > light levels from). > > Depending on length of the fiber, you may or may not need anything > more (such as regen units, amps etc). If you are going to design a > solution using passive Mux/Demux do pay attention to the insertion > loss figures on the different products. > > In my opinion, doing a CWDM/DWDM design calculations for a WiSP should > be fairly easy to understand. > > The benefit in designing your own solution, you gain a much better > understanding on what you can do and what you cannot do... (e.g. do > you know that you can potentially stack a DWDM solution right behind a > CWDM passive mux ? .... and you will end up with a much more flexible > solution, at a fraction of the cost of a comparable canned solution. > > We did a CWDM (8ch) passive solution, along with colored optics, 10g > Switches between 4 different Data Center, for under $12k a couple of years > back. > They way we optimized our design for initial cost, while maintaining > the ability to expand my adding another CWDM or DWDM mux in the future. > > (We went with gear from Fiberstore, we did consult them with our > solution, and they offered us Mux/DeMux units with even lower > insertion loss that those listed on their website for a slight > premium, which in our case was well worth > it) > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Justin Wilson" <li...@mtin.net> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 10:52:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear > >> Are you looking for active or passive? >> >> We just replaced a failing Ciena Mux with an 18 channel passive mux >> for a data center client. Ours was CWDM, but they make a DWDM >> version. Total cost was under 5 grand, including spares. Ciena >> wanted 24k to update the service contract, update software, and >> troubleshoot an alarm state. >> >> Justin Wilson >> j...@mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - >> Distributed Fabric >> >>> On Aug 14, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>> I have always used Cyan. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Stewart >>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 7:30 AM >>> To: Animal Farm >>> Subject: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >>> >>> For those folks doing DWDM on fiber, whats your preferred equipment and why? >>> >>> We currently use BTI equipment which works extremely well but it’s >>> priced in the same ballpark as Ciena, Nortel, Cisco etc … quite >>> expensive to deploy. Hoping to find something more economical but >>> just as reliable? By reliable I mean that it’s deployed for years >>> without having to do anything service impacting to it. For this >>> particular deployment I’m thinking of, ROADM isn’t important >>> neither. Prefer active solution vs passive. CWDM would even be ok at this >>> point to consider … >>> >>> Basically looking at ways to cut down on 10G fibers between two >>> physical locations (the fiber is leased) >>> >>> thanks, > >> Paul
