Oh yeah... and to get that 75dB of gain you're looking at this for electrical:
208 VAC ± 10% Three Phase, 4 Wire, 47 to 63 Hz 8500 VA (maximum) 0.95 Minimum Prime Power Factor http://www.satcomnow.com/satcom/pdf/Xicom_XTRD2000C.pdf so you know, it gets a bit warm :) On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: > The "magnitudes of power" part may not be fully understood by people > who've never built a large C-band earth station: Imagine something with > 75dB of gain: > > http://www.satcomresources.com/Xicom-XTRD-2000C-C-Band- > TWTA-Rack-Mount-2250W_2 > > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Hardy, Tim <tha...@comsearch.com> wrote: > >> Umm, Tim – not the other guy - author or actor! Coordination distance is >> actually 125 miles with a 125-mile keyhole +/- 5 degrees around the main >> beam. You might think this is overkill, but we have seen catastrophic >> interference cases beyond even these distances, so industry settled on >> these to make sure that longer main beam cases were examined. A couple of >> additional things to consider at 6 GHz: >> >> >> >> The FCC minimum path distance at 6 GHz is 17 kilometers - paths less than >> this distance can be licensed but there are required EIRP restrictions. >> Usually, you would want to reduce power on a shorter path anyway to avoid >> saturating your receivers. >> >> >> >> Do not forget about c-band satellite ground stations. These transmit in >> the lower 6 GHz band (some even in upper 6) in magnitudes of power much >> greater than a fixed point-to-point system. Most of these stations in the >> States are licensed full-band, full-arc so if a problem is indicated and >> there is no clutter or other shielding, it is difficult to clear anything. >> We have seen major issues when these cases are overlooked. >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 09, 2017 3:11 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> >> >> You have to look out to 50 miles and check the energy coming off your >> antenna in all directions. >> >> Tom Hardy or Liz Creekmore could tell us much more. >> >> >> >> *From:* Brett A Mansfield >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 09, 2017 1:08 PM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> >> >> Okay, so in The valley I'm looking at there is one 6GHz link that is >> nowhere I near where I plan to put mine, there are two 11GHz links, neither >> of which would cross paths with mine, no 13 GHz at all, and two small links >> in 18 and 23 GHz that might conflict. >> >> >> >> Now to start looking at a product to use. What do people recommend for 6 >> and 11 GHz? Would it be cheaper and easier to just put up a few hops and >> use the AF? What do you guys suggest? I got the exact path length. It's >> only a mere 8 miles. I really thought it would be 15, but I was pleasantly >> mistaken. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Brett A Mansfield >> >> >> On Feb 9, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> My teachers told me about the coming ice age... >> >> >> >> *From:* Jaime Solorza >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:42 PM >> >> *To:* Animal Farm >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> >> >> Trust the math... It's science and engineering based.... Like global >> warming.... Zaz. Toooooo easy.... Recipes on the way >> >> >> >> On Feb 9, 2017 9:27 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >> >> Something else that gets some people into trouble is the difference in >> how path loss and rain fade act with increased distance. The post Mike >> linked to makes this clear. >> >> >> >> We get used to double the distance = 6 dB more path loss, which can be >> made up via antenna gain. >> >> >> >> But double the distance potentially means double the rain fade in dB. So >> 40 dB could become 80 dB. You’re not going to make that up with bigger >> dishes. >> >> >> >> Of course, your local weather patterns are also a factor. If you >> typically get big storms with heavy rain for 20+ miles, this analysis is >> correct. But if you typically get little popup storms, or front boundaries >> that move across a microwave path without actually raining on the entire >> path, this analysis is overly pessimistic. It also matters whether the >> path is north-south or east-west, if like us you typically get storms >> moving from west to east. >> >> >> >> How people use the Internet is also a factor. It used to be, as long as >> you could get email and look stuff up on Google, your Internet was >> working. But now if an HD video stream stops to rebuffer, you have “no >> Internet”. Which may seem silly to us, but if watching movies is the only >> thing you use the Internet for, and you can’t watch movies, then your >> Internet is broken. And while 10 years ago people were doing totally new >> things via the Internet, today they are more likely replacing something >> like satellite TV with a streaming service to save money or add >> convenience. But they still expect DirecTV Now to be as simple and >> reliable as broadcast TV, they don’t expect to pay more for their Internet, >> but whenever there’s a problem they are told it must be their crappy >> Internet. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2017 9:58 AM >> *To:* af <af@afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> >> >> Yeah, I really don't trust them that much either, but they're certainly >> useful for getting an idea of how different areas compare. Things will >> certainly work differently in Utah than they do for us in southern >> Wisconsin/northern Illinois. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >> Assuming you trust the models. >> >> I for one, don't. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/9562053545049 >> 17?match=cmFpbg%3D%3D >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <image001.jpg> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><image001.jpg> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><i >> mage001.jpg> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <image001.jpg> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <image001.jpg> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><image001.jpg> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><i >> mage001.jpg> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <image001.jpg> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><image001.jpg> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> >> *To: *"af" <af@afmug.com> >> *Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2017 9:29:53 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> It may not be a rain forest, but it's not a desert either... there's >> going to be a big difference between rainzones K and B. According to >> Mimosa's design tool, the Rain Fade in Utah would only be around 17db, >> which should make 15 miles easily doable at 11ghz. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >> >> At 15 miles in 11 GHz I get 40+ dB rain fade. Only acceptable with 5 or >> 6 GHz backup. I wouldn't even think about trying 18 GHz at that distance. >> And this is northern Illinois, not a rain forest. >> >> Oh, and you can deny climate change all you want, but in many places the >> rain models are optimistic. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf >> Of Trey Scarborough >> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:33 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> I have a 18ghz 15mile link with no issues. and 4' dishes. It was the only >> thing I could get 80mhz channels in. >> >> shouldn't be a problem with 11ghz at all just depends on the equipment >> used. It also depends on your definition of huge... For some its 3" for >> others it is 8'. completely acceptable for most rain regions with 4' dishes. >> >> On 2/8/2017 7:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> > http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/610/img/photo >> > s/2017/02/08/94/08/sex-offender-sought.jpg >> > >> > I've seen this too, doesn't mean I'd recommend anyone do it. >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > Mike Hammett >> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentC >> > omputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent- >> > computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/m >> > idwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> > >> > >> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> > *From: *"Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >> > *To: *af@afmug.com >> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:51:51 PM >> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> > >> > I have seen an 18GHz link that far with 6' dishes. >> > >> > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net >> <af...@ics-il.net%0b>> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net <af...@ics-il.net>>> >> wrote: >> > >> > Not a chance at 18. Maybe 11, but that's even far for 11 GHz without >> > huge dishes. >> > >> > Play with Mimosa's designer, Cambium's LinkPlanner, etc. >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > Mike Hammett >> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In >> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/ >> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin. >> com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> > >> > >> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------ >> > *From: *"Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com >> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com%0b>> <mailto:lists@silverlakeintern >> et.com <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>>> >> > *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com <af@afmug.com>> >> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:38:58 PM >> > *Subject: *[AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput >> >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > I've never yet done a licensed link and there is plenty of these two >> > frequencies available in my area. I need to be able to get 500Mbps >> > at about 15 miles. Is that possible with either of these? >> > >> > What kind of real world speeds can I expect out of these and what >> > channel size do I need to license to get those speeds? >> > >> > Is there something else I should consider? What brand/model radios >> > and dishes, what other frequencies for easier licensing, etc? >> > >> > It would be great to be able to get a gig that distance, but I'm >> > trying to be realistic and get just what I really need to start >> with. >> > >> > No legal advice please, just your experience with it and any >> > knowledge you'd be able/willing to share with the licensing of these >> > frequencies. >> > >> > Thank you, >> > Brett A Mansfield >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
