....I'm gonna drift a bit now:
I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the
next generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns
from the 40's describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know
I've seen one from the 1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of
"today's" youth drinking, getting pregnant, and having no desire to
work. Apparently every generation for at least a hundred years has
thought the ones coming after them were stupid and lazy.
Young people have things to learn, but feel that they don't. They make
poor choices. It's all part of learning. It's not a problem with a
particular generation, and it's not a cultural shift towards laziness.
It's the young being youthful.
I'm not saying sloth should be forgiven, I'm just saying you have to
teach/show them. Maybe tell them to get the lead out, and see whether
they do it or tell you fuck off. If they tell you to fuck off and you
fire them, then you've taught them a valuable lesson about
consequences....or they don't learn and move back into momma's house.
If they do it, then they've learned something else. Maybe they've
learned that the boss is a jerk, or maybe they've learned that
expectations are higher than they thought but they have what it takes to
meet them. Maybe they learn both.
I, on the other hand, emerged from my mother's womb as a fully formed
grumpy old man. So I know nothing of poor choices.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Ben Royer" <operati...@royell.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/24/2017 11:17:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures.
I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the
former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s
about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can
definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and
old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers,
with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned
to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to
train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt
with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs,
can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that
might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main
reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to
all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer
is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway,
is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as
long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a
job well done.
As far as training new hires. We have always done that through
osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic
orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF
training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is
science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them
up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way.
They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech,
learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the
Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole
job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out
sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety,
and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how
they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address
concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready
to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to
try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect
that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key
is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow
because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just
making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5
different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant
test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he
tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s
inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you
have 5 options.
If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s
time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are
not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical
labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the
technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires,
some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be
trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination
to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process.
I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was
causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to
identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly
teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
From:Chuck McCown <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means
hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck
and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging
back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show
some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If
you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can
you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead
of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From:Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay
with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will
have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les
Schwab or Tunex or ......
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them
like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock
and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
From:Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you
told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then
go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be
rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have
to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3,
then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to
house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give
them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them,
in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
From:Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did
anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go
about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other
duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good
understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is
that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to
do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out
where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site
surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs
during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in
through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these
sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.
I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I
considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over
10 hours not counting drive time.
I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and
not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another
installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He
came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both
experienced.
So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and
then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through
the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate.
Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer
questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the
new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is
there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking
with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we
can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so
no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames
on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we
knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in
3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I
left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard
install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check
on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the
install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing
stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at
this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at
5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the
other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish
reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a
between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day.
Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last
job.
I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a
lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he
had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on
the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I
can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into
the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says
okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy
with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed
him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up
and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed
the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune
and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this
short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went
down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put
one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the
wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we
just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof,
tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just
under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss
with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I
always run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This
guy defiantly does not run and nothing is done with any sense of
urgency. He is certainly smart and I hate to let him go because he
has other values but I don’t know what I can do to help him. He was
hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the beginning new
guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently took
on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it.
Thoughts?
Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire
you if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast
but Its lots of little things. Start with running everywhere you go
and see if that helps?
Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots
of guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews
with the expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of
drive time in there?
Thanks,
Brandon
