I had one of those once. He said he was not going to train someone just to see them quit and get a better job than him. We just ignored him and told him to train people.
From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:18 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. We have a guy who refuses to train new people. I'm not sure we know how to deal with that because, for the most part, we really really like him. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McCown To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down, we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have done that about 3 years ago”. From: Ben Royer Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done. As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you that you have 5 options. If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go. Thank you, Ben Royer, Operations Manager Royell Communications, Inc. 217-965-3699 www.royell.net From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply organization. At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise. But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time... From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for. Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy. - Josh On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab or Tunex or ...... Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need to work efficiently. It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to take their time. From: Timothy Steele Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare. I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. From: Brandon Yuchasz Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do. I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting drive time. I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced. So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job. I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. He is certainly smart and I hate to let him go because he has other values but I don’t know what I can do to help him. He was hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the beginning new guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently took on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it. Thoughts? Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire you if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast but Its lots of little things. Start with running everywhere you go and see if that helps? Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots of guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews with the expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of drive time in there? Thanks, Brandon