Not really ageism, merely an observation. I consider myself young even at 33,
so I’m speaking as ‘youth’, and I can tell you a majority of young kids, aged
18 to upper 20’s, don’t want to do anything, and want more money for less work,
if they could get paid to sit at home, they would. Sure, one could make the
argument the older generation has that group also, I can attest to that, as I
have a few of those employees also. But I was simply speaking from a majority
of what the employment pool has today. I can assure you, at least in Central
Illinois, there are more people that don’t want to work in the ‘youth’
demographic, than people that want to earn their pay.
And I personally, just my opinion, believe it is a cultural thing. I’m not
looking down on anyone by saying that, just stating that the modern generation
has been taught that there are more shortcuts than there are challenges to face
and build character. I’ve also seen it with my own eyes as I have 4 young
children. The things they teach kids now, and the way they teach them, is way
different than what I was raised to know, and even more disconnected from our
fathers and their fathers before them. Every generation will have the youthful
ones, but I think the current youthful generation is being raised in a world
where they are taught everyone gets a trophy or nobody does, and that hurts the
employer, because you no longer have people competing for position and pride,
instead you have groups of folks getting together saying, hey, Dan makes $15,
we ALL should make $15.... but Dan does more..... Yeah, but Dan is my equal
because we share the same title, and therefor should share the same pay.....
but Dan has also been here for 5 years, you just started....... I don’t care,
Dan and I work right next to each other, and I deserve the same benefits he
has.... guarantee that argument has been had by many business owners lately
with at least one employee. Not trying to start a long drawn out debate about
the youth or culture, just giving an example of what I’ve personally seen in
our area.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:36 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
....I'm gonna drift a bit now:
I take issue with the ageism. There's a tendency to look down on the next
generation and say they're all lazy bums. You can find columns from the 40's
describing the young people as lazy and immoral. I know I've seen one from the
1890's decrying the horrible tendencies of "today's" youth drinking, getting
pregnant, and having no desire to work. Apparently every generation for at
least a hundred years has thought the ones coming after them were stupid and
lazy.
Young people have things to learn, but feel that they don't. They make poor
choices. It's all part of learning. It's not a problem with a particular
generation, and it's not a cultural shift towards laziness. It's the young
being youthful.
I'm not saying sloth should be forgiven, I'm just saying you have to teach/show
them. Maybe tell them to get the lead out, and see whether they do it or tell
you fuck off. If they tell you to fuck off and you fire them, then you've
taught them a valuable lesson about consequences....or they don't learn and
move back into momma's house. If they do it, then they've learned something
else. Maybe they've learned that the boss is a jerk, or maybe they've learned
that expectations are higher than they thought but they have what it takes to
meet them. Maybe they learn both.
I, on the other hand, emerged from my mother's womb as a fully formed grumpy
old man. So I know nothing of poor choices.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Ben Royer" <operati...@royell.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/24/2017 11:17:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures. I was
raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the former, not the
current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s about having a sense of
pride for yourself and your work. I can definitely see the division amongst my
team though, as I have young and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a
team of 6 installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently
transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I can rely
on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc. I’ve dealt with
most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly through jobs, can do 7 a day,
but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours,
but their installs are impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’
role, was to find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the
end of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think
that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside from
obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the customer is
satisfied, it’s a job well done.
As far as training new hires. We have always done that through osmosis. We
spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic orientation of who we
are, and what are system is like. I give some RF training, so they understand
it’s not magic, it’s not a laser, there is science behind the actual physical
structure of RF. Then I pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech,
and send them on their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days
with that tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks
as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing the whole
job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have break out sessions
as needed. Early on I do a break out session on tower safety, and we do follow
up meetings with them and the Lead tech to see how they are progressing, and I
tweak their training as needed to address concerns or short comings. Usually,
by 40 days or so, they are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and
then we turn them lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins
for help, expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find
the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys are slow
because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of just making a
decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to test 5 different tours
by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that meant test all of them, even
though he found a signal on the first one he tested, so I had to explain the
goal is to get a signal, period, it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch
was just telling you that you have 5 options.
If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on, it’s time
to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just are not cut out for
this type of work, as it is a unique job of physical labor, mixed with a level
of intelligence when it comes to the technical side of things. Military guys
are GREAT installer hires, some of my best employees are former military.
Everything can be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and
determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to that
process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact findings that was
causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once you start to identify them,
focusing some attention on those areas will quickly teach you on if they can
adapt, or need to be let go.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do things
perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means hustle. Why would
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? There is
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth. Not saying to
sprint or full on run. Just jog, show some hustle. Economy of movements.
That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day. If you
get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab
or Tunex or ......
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them like
an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock and they need
to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay anyone to
take their time.
From: Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to
run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to
do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, then up it to
4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house?
Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of
drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, in
simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
From: Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway
sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to
teach / train a new installer to work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other
duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding
of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on
installs and the primary job he was hired to do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where
the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time
with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here,
wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see
the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.
I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered
a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over 10 hours not counting
drive time.
I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single
thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and
asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each
install. So had I but we are both experienced.
So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then
took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire
install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left
the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not
physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask
because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and
would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process
so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no
hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on
installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three
to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was
alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half
hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30
and driving back to check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about
done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not
throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at
this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for
sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack
up the truck some. This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a
family) and also because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install
of the day.
Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job.
I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot
100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never seen
I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the house.
Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof. And it’s a
tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the back of the house
“that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He
has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then
instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up
and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed the mast,
mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the
small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned
and marked the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In
his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with
the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end.
Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof,
tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just under two
hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with
this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to
the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not
run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. He is certainly smart and I
hate to let him go because he has other values but I don’t know what I can do
to help him. He was hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the
beginning new guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently
took on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it.
Thoughts?
Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire you
if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast but Its lots of
little things. Start with running everywhere you go and see if that helps?
Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots of
guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews with the
expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of drive time in
there?
Thanks,
Brandon
