When unions were a "shield" for the workers to protect and garner better conditions they were reasonable; once they turned into the "club" to beat management and companies into doing their will they became despickable (IMO).
-- Larry Smith lesm...@ecsis.net On Fri April 28 2017 10:59, Adam Moffett wrote: > That's scandalous. I have never experienced anything like that. > > I wasn't against unions until I was a young adult....and in principle > I'm still not "against unions", I'm against how far they seem to be > reaching. > > In 1999 I was doing tech support for $8.50/hour. I think I had 50% > medical coverage. I think in 2001 or 2002 Verizon's linemen went on > strike. The big deal was that they currently had 100% of their health > insurance paid for by the company, and management wanted to make it 80%. > Any line work during the strike was done by managers or contractors. > > I had difficulty sympathizing with people who already had it way better > than normal and it wasn't enough. I heard things later that made me > straight up angry: Some of the linesmen on strike (allegedly) committed > acts of sabotage just to create problems that there wasn't enough labor > to solve. I heard from a local field tech that she was told by the > union to only complete x number of work orders per day (I think it was > 2), and to deliberately waste time if they were in danger of > accomplishing too much. > > ....meanwhile I'm busting my ass for 1/3 of the money and half the > bennies they get. It's really colored my opinion. To me union == lazy > crybabies. I understand that unions were largely responsible for > raising the standard of living in the USA, but I feel like now they've > got it made and it's still not enough for them. > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: ch...@wbmfg.com > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 4/28/2017 11:30:19 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > >I was kinda almost union once. Worked for UPS as a seasonal sorter > >truck loader in their PDX hub. Couple of teamsters came in the truck I > >was loading. Threatened me that if I did not join the union I would > >find working there difficult, extracted some cash from me to fund the > >united way and then left. That was my last day last shift. And I have > >NEVER given to united way since. > > > >From:Jerry Head > >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 AM > >To:af@afmug.com > >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > > > >You clearly are non-union. > > > >On 4/24/2017 8:57 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >>Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les > >>Schwab or Tunex or ...... > >> > >>Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them > >>like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the clock > >>and they need to work efficiently. > >> > >>It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay > >>anyone to take their time. > >> > >>From:Timothy Steele > >>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM > >>To:af@afmug.com > >>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > >> > >>If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start > >>looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you > >>told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then > >>go for it > >> > >>On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >>>You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they > >>>decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be > >>>rare. > >>> > >>>I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have > >>>to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3, > >>>then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate. > >>> > >>>Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to > >>>house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give > >>>them a bit of drill sergeant treatment. > >>> > >>>I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell them, > >>>in simple and clear terms exactly what you want. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>From:Brandon Yuchasz > >>>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM > >>>To:af@afmug.com > >>>Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process. > >>>I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did > >>>anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go > >>>about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other > >>>duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good > >>>understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is > >>>that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to > >>>do. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out > >>>where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site > >>>surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs > >>>during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in > >>>through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these > >>>sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I > >>>considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over > >>>10 hours not counting drive time. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers > >>>permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and > >>>not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another > >>>installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He > >>>came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both > >>>experienced. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and > >>>then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through > >>>the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. > >>>Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer > >>>questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the > >>>new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is > >>>there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking > >>>with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we > >>>can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so > >>>no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames > >>>on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we > >>>knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in > >>>3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I > >>>left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard > >>>install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check > >>>on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with the > >>>install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not throwing > >>>stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at > >>>this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at > >>>5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the > >>>other guy to pack up the truck some. This was done for selfish > >>>reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a > >>>between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last > >>>job. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a > >>>lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he > >>>had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on > >>>the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck so I > >>>can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into > >>>the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the back” he says > >>>okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He has the new guy > >>>with him so he told him to help with the ladder and then instructed > >>>him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out the ladder was up > >>>and the supervisor was at the top screwing down the tripod. I grabbed > >>>the mast, mounted the antenna and put the wireless unit on it to tune > >>>and scurried up the small ladder and up the roof. Ill make this > >>>short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked the tripod and I went > >>>down and he had just finished the RJ45. In his defense he had put > >>>one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had confused with the rest of the > >>>wire in the box( I don’t know) so this was his second end. Anyway we > >>>just ran the job and he stayed out of the way. This was a hard roof, > >>>tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading home in just > >>>under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss > >>>with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I > >>>always run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This > >>>guy defiantly does not run and nothing is done with any sense of > >>>urgency. He is certainly smart and I hate to let him go because he > >>>has other values but I don’t know what I can do to help him. He was > >>>hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the beginning new > >>>guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently took > >>>on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Thoughts? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to fire > >>>you if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get fast > >>>but Its lots of little things. Start with running everywhere you go > >>>and see if that helps? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired lots > >>>of guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man crews > >>>with the expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an hour of > >>>drive time in there? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Thanks, > >>> > >>>Brandon
