What about medical history and medicine if any he was on? I’m thinking we should have enough data with about one shooting incident a day in the US now, that would allow us to narrow down on the mental state of these people.
Because we can all agree it’s not a normal person that acts on an impulse to kill numbers of people randomly. If it’s incidental, that can be harder to find, track and prevent. But if it’s say someone on a prescription medication that has psychotropic side effects, maybe they shouldn’t have the right to a gun? Three of my sons take such various medications for various mental things like that. I would not want them to have access to a gun at any time. And if they continue to have to use the medicine to function ‘normally’ in society, I would agree with anyone that says they should not be allowed to possess an unrestricted firearm, ever. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 10:05 PM To: af <af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a difference. Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners. In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to. (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list). The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic weapons to automatic functions. I find it irrational that one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion" products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing. Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here. Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve that one? On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote: We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta have both on you to carry. Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS. So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here. None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut jobs. On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote: I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased over the counter On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote: How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without setting off all sorts of sirens? You would think ATF would have some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind. On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote: s/clip/magazine Sorry Bill, had to. On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips. There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: How long did this event last? From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he killed himself ? Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net><mailto:r...@triadwireless.net> To: "af@afmug.com"<mailto:af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com><mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them yet. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting +1, let's please not get into a political fight. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such things. I would hope to head off any political debates on the list. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com<mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote: I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe that they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I expect that will not last. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance they claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. People died for no good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got to change. Fuck the politics. On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com<mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>> wrote: Well that is some relief. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: FBI says no... On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified yet, but if true is pretty scary. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote: I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room or whatever. On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote: 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel luggage transport On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>> wrote: Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> wrote: Expect metal detectors going in immediately... On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at the casino. Mike Hammett wrote: It would be irrational to change your plans, but we're all just people. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>> *To: *af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be down from this On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>>> wrote: A week later and some of us may have been at the concert. Robert wrote: A best friend and his brother were there and had bullets wizzing by him and hitting the ground around him and had people falling around him. On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: I have a co-worker who is there on a vacation for his birthday until Wednesday. Haven't heard from him yet. On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>>> wrote: I'm not really even sure what to say. This keeps getting worse and worse as more details come in. A different festival on a different night and I could have been among the crowd. Makes it even more real. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345<tel:406-449-3345> <tel:406-449-3345<tel:406-449-3345>> <tel:406-449-3345<tel:406-449-3345> <tel:406-449-3345<tel:406-449-3345>>> | Address: 3577 <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g> Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>> forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> <mailto:forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com>>>> | http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux <http://facebook.com/packetflux>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>> Virus-free. www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> <http://www.avg.com> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -- Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553<https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> Baltimore, MD 21202<https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> (410) 637-3707<tel:%28410%29%20637-3707> -- Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 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