because the last time things got far off topic and overly heated, some
valuable contributors got fed up and left (sorry)
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed. It is an
> email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want. Why is
> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate?
> Bunch of pussies....
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically
>>> neuter the population.
>>>
>>> We can start with Steve.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day
>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the
>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the
>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill
>>> count this year than this guy.
>>>
>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not
>>> seeing the forrest through the trees.
>>>
>>> Really should have killed this thread.
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as
>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto
>>>> narrative that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot
>>>> from near the base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a
>>>> friend sent me. I'll post the link if you guys want. It sounds like this
>>>> fuckwit is using an external rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You
>>>> can hear the cyclic rate change. That's not something a full auto does.
>>>> Probably his trigger masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of
>>>> shit. Sorry for that. I'm going back to bed.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have
>>>> prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that
>>>> with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have
>>>> made much of a difference.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you
>>>> have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun
>>>> owners. In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns,
>>>> restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we
>>>> have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact
>>>> same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to.
>>>> (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun
>>>> users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up
>>>> leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list).
>>>>
>>>> The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have
>>>> helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert
>>>> non-automatic weapons to automatic functions. I find it irrational that
>>>> one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar
>>>> restrictions to "conversion" products. On the other hand, I can think
>>>> of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many
>>>> of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing.
>>>>
>>>> Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause
>>>> here. Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use
>>>> guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do
>>>> we solve that one?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo
>>>>> without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep,
>>>>> you gotta have both on you to carry.
>>>>> Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
>>>>> 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.
>>>>>
>>>>> So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.
>>>>>
>>>>> None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet
>>>>> nut jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure
>>>>> of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased.
>>>>> in
>>>>> the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased
>>>>> over the counter
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo
>>>>>> without setting off all sorts of sirens? You would think ATF would have
>>>>>> some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands
>>>>>>> of rounds plus electronics of some kind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s/clip/magazine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry Bill, had to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe
>>>>>>>> 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like
>>>>>>>> automatic
>>>>>>>> weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at
>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>> 6 or 7 clips.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but
>>>>>>>> if it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How long did this event last?
>>>>>>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him
>>>>>>>> and he killed himself ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>>>>>>> <r...@triadwireless.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can
>>>>>>>> find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t
>>>>>>>> heard from them yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rory
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
>>>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of
>>>>>>>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical
>>>>>>>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
>>>>>>>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political
>>>>>>>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like
>>>>>>>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be
>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe
>>>>>>>> that they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I
>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>> that will not last.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance
>>>>>>>> they claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person.
>>>>>>>> People
>>>>>>>> died for no good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy
>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>> to guns has got to change. Fuck the politics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well that is some relief.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FBI says no...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible,
>>>>>>>> not verified yet, but if true is pretty scary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman <
>>>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
>>>>>>>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference
>>>>>>>> room
>>>>>>>> or whatever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
>>>>>>>> luggage transport
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswireless@gmail.
>>>>>>>> com>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am
>>>>>>>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or
>>>>>>>> travel
>>>>>>>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" <
>>>>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage
>>>>>>>> checks at
>>>>>>>> the casino.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be irrational to change your
>>>>>>>> plans, but
>>>>>>>> we're all just people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>>> <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><
>>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb
>>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte
>>>>>>>> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/c
>>>>>>>> ompany/intelligent-computing-solutions
>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>>>>>>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>
>>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>>>>>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><
>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange
>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp
>>>>>>>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>
>>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP
>>>>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/
>>>>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann
>>>>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
>>>>>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show
>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>> down from this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
>>>>>>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A week later and some of us may have
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> at the concert.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A best friend and his brother were
>>>>>>>> there and had bullets
>>>>>>>> wizzing by him and hitting the
>>>>>>>> ground
>>>>>>>> around him and had
>>>>>>>> people falling around him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a co-worker who is
>>>>>>>> there on
>>>>>>>> a vacation for his
>>>>>>>> birthday until Wednesday.
>>>>>>>> Haven't
>>>>>>>> heard from him yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM,
>>>>>>>> "Forrest
>>>>>>>> Christian (List Account)"
>>>>>>>> <li...@packetflux.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not really even sure
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> to say. This keeps
>>>>>>>> getting worse and
>>>>>>>> worse as more details come
>>>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A different festival on a
>>>>>>>> different night and I could
>>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>>> among the crowd. Makes it
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> more real.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- *Forrest Christian*
>>>>>>>> /CEO//, PacketFlux
>>>>>>>> Technologies, Inc./
>>>>>>>> Tel: 406-449-3345
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <tel:406-449-3345> <tel:406-449-3345
>>>>>>>> <tel:406-449-3345>> | Address: 3577
>>>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35
>>>>>>>> 77+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A
>>>>>>>> 0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail
>>>>>>>> &source=g>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT
>>>>>>>> 59602
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+M
>>>>>>>> T+59602&entry=gmail&source=g
>>>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35
>>>>>>>> 77+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>> forre...@imach.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>> |
>>>>>>>> http://www.packetflux.com
>>>>>>>> <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://facebook.com/packetflux
>>>>>>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>>
>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflu
>>>>>>>> x
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for
>>>>>>>> viruses
>>>>>>>> by AVG.
>>>>>>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-sign
>>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai
>>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient
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>>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai
>>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient>>
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>>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com>
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>>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai
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>>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai
>>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl Peterson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (410) 637-3707 <%28410%29%20637-3707>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO*
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>>
>
>
