because the last time things got far off topic and overly heated, some valuable contributors got fed up and left (sorry)
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote: > This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed. It is an > email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want. Why is > everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate? > Bunch of pussies.... > > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote: > >> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? >> >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. Medically >>> neuter the population. >>> >>> We can start with Steve. >>> >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> >>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> >>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day >>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the >>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in the >>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill >>> count this year than this guy. >>> >>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome not >>> seeing the forrest through the trees. >>> >>> Really should have killed this thread. >>> >>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as >>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room. >>>> >>>> >>>> bp >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/3/2017 1:28 AM, George Skorup wrote: >>>> >>>> I think we might possibly be overthinking this whole full auto >>>> narrative that the media is pushing. Just watched a video that someone shot >>>> from near the base of the hotel. The video is from an NSFW site that a >>>> friend sent me. I'll post the link if you guys want. It sounds like this >>>> fuckwit is using an external rotary trigger device. Think gatling gun. You >>>> can hear the cyclic rate change. That's not something a full auto does. >>>> Probably his trigger masturbation hand getting tired. Fucking piece of >>>> shit. Sorry for that. I'm going back to bed. >>>> >>>> On 10/2/2017 11:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: >>>> >>>> After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have >>>> prevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that >>>> with one possible exception, there really isn't anything which would have >>>> made much of a difference. >>>> >>>> Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you >>>> have to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun >>>> owners. In every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, >>>> restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we >>>> have that this attack could have been carried out with access to the exact >>>> same arsenal that a recreational gun user should have access to. >>>> (Assuming one buys into the belief that there should be recreational gun >>>> users - let's NOT go down that path, since that would definitely end up >>>> leading to somewhere we don't want to go on this list). >>>> >>>> The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have >>>> helped is further restricting devices designed to effectively convert >>>> non-automatic weapons to automatic functions. I find it irrational that >>>> one would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similar >>>> restrictions to "conversion" products. On the other hand, I can think >>>> of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automatic functions, many >>>> of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalence of 3d printing. >>>> >>>> Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause >>>> here. Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use >>>> guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do >>>> we solve that one? >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo >>>>> without your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, >>>>> you gotta have both on you to carry. >>>>> Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our >>>>> 4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS. >>>>> >>>>> So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here. >>>>> >>>>> None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet >>>>> nut jobs. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure >>>>> of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. >>>>> in >>>>> the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased >>>>> over the counter >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo >>>>>> without setting off all sorts of sirens? You would think ATF would have >>>>>> some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza < >>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> 59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands >>>>>>> of rounds plus electronics of some kind. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> s/clip/magazine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry Bill, had to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe >>>>>>>> 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like >>>>>>>> automatic >>>>>>>> weapon fire going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded >>>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>> big clip). Then there was a brief pause (people on the scene described >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> as "30 seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were at >>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>> 6 or 7 clips. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but >>>>>>>> if it's even close to correct, it is pretty scary. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bp >>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How long did this event last? >>>>>>>> From the time he started shooting how long until police found him >>>>>>>> and he killed himself ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Reply message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> >>>>>>>> <r...@triadwireless.net> >>>>>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can >>>>>>>> find a motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t >>>>>>>> heard from them yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rory >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1, let's please not get into a political fight. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of >>>>>>>> extremely fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical >>>>>>>> reasons behind them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the >>>>>>>> opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can agree, without political >>>>>>>> discussions, that crazy is crazy. And while I hate to see this like >>>>>>>> everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving people would be >>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>>> do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy people from doing such >>>>>>>> things. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would hope to head off any political debates on the list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe >>>>>>>> that they are legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I >>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>> that will not last. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza < >>>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance >>>>>>>> they claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. >>>>>>>> People >>>>>>>> died for no good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy >>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>> to guns has got to change. Fuck the politics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well that is some relief. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FBI says no... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, >>>>>>>> not verified yet, but if true is pretty scary. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman < >>>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas >>>>>>>> hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference >>>>>>>> room >>>>>>>> or whatever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel >>>>>>>> luggage transport >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswireless@gmail. >>>>>>>> com>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am >>>>>>>> aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or >>>>>>>> travel >>>>>>>> bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow. >>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" < >>>>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Expect metal detectors going in immediately... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I won't be surprised if there were baggage >>>>>>>> checks at >>>>>>>> the casino. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would be irrational to change your >>>>>>>> plans, but >>>>>>>> we're all just people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>>> <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>>< >>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb >>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+Inte >>>>>>>> lligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/c >>>>>>>> ompany/intelligent-computing-solutions >>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp >>>>>>>> any/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>> >>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>>>>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>>< >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange >>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/comp >>>>>>>> any/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>> >>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ >>>>>>>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann >>>>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann >>>>>>>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" >>>>>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM >>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show >>>>>>>> will be >>>>>>>> down from this >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley >>>>>>>> <par...@cyberbroadband.net >>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A week later and some of us may have >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> at the concert. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Robert wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A best friend and his brother were >>>>>>>> there and had bullets >>>>>>>> wizzing by him and hitting the >>>>>>>> ground >>>>>>>> around him and had >>>>>>>> people falling around him. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a co-worker who is >>>>>>>> there on >>>>>>>> a vacation for his >>>>>>>> birthday until Wednesday. >>>>>>>> Haven't >>>>>>>> heard from him yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, >>>>>>>> "Forrest >>>>>>>> Christian (List Account)" >>>>>>>> <li...@packetflux.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com> >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com> >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not really even sure >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> to say. This keeps >>>>>>>> getting worse and >>>>>>>> worse as more details come >>>>>>>> in. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A different festival on a >>>>>>>> different night and I could >>>>>>>> have been >>>>>>>> among the crowd. Makes it >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> more real. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- *Forrest Christian* >>>>>>>> /CEO//, PacketFlux >>>>>>>> Technologies, Inc./ >>>>>>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <tel:406-449-3345> <tel:406-449-3345 >>>>>>>> <tel:406-449-3345>> | Address: 3577 >>>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35 >>>>>>>> 77+%0D+%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A >>>>>>>> 0%C2%A0%C2%A0+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail >>>>>>>> &source=g> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Countryside Road, Helena, MT >>>>>>>> 59602 >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+M >>>>>>>> T+59602&entry=gmail&source=g >>>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=35 >>>>>>>> 77+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> forre...@imach.com <mailto: >>>>>>>> forre...@imach.com> >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com> >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com>>> | >>>>>>>> http://www.packetflux.com >>>>>>>> <http://www.packetflux.com/> >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>> >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> http://facebook.com/packetflux >>>>>>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>> >>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflu >>>>>>>> x >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> This email has been checked for >>>>>>>> viruses >>>>>>>> by AVG. >>>>>>>> http://www.avg.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-sign >>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai >>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient >>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-sign >>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai >>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient>> >>>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-sign >>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai >>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient >>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-sign >>>>>>>> ature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-emai >>>>>>>> l&utm_content=emailclient>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>> >>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>> >>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>> >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>> >>>>>> (410) 637-3707 <%28410%29%20637-3707> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO* >>>> >>>> ... >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Carl Peterson >> >> *PORT NETWORKS* >> >> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> >> >> Baltimore, MD 21202 >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=401+E+Pratt+St,+Ste+2553%0D+Baltimore,+MD+21202&entry=gmail&source=g> >> >> (410) 637-3707 >> > >