Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

Robert Tue, 03 Oct 2017 07:26:36 -0700

I agree with this. Luckily this guy didn't take one of his planes andfly it into the same crowd. Easily 100 dead, maybe 1000...


On 10/3/17 6:33 AM, Andy Trimmell wrote:

In my eyes I donï¿½t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless youhave some sort of ï¿½Minority Reportï¿½ from the movies. Early reports statethe guy had no mental health issues and had one citation that wasremoved through the court system. ï¿½The story is he had 2 homes andgambled online and didnï¿½t talk to his neighbors much.ï¿½ Sounds like mostof the people I know or have known. I live in a huge community and noone talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone spends way too muchtime online ____________ or doing something.

Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns theyï¿½lldo the same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings.Australia doesnï¿½t have guns and people have recently began driving carsinto crowds of people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder isalready banned in every place on Earth but it happens every second. Themost important thing is that we as the non-crazy people that we sticktogether and figure out a solution. We canï¿½t continue down this road ofdivisive chatter, not just here but as a whole society. Too often onlineand on TV people talking about one group hating another and thenmitigate it with more hate through personal attacks, threats etc.

Remember weï¿½re the good guys (most of us). Letï¿½s also remember weï¿½re onthe same side.


Best Regards,

Andy Trimmell

/Systems Engineer/

*PDS Connect*

317-831-3000

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with aWMD is because plutonium is fucking hard to get..

*From: *Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> onbehalf of "li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>"<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

*Date: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM

*To: *"af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control haveprevented this tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion thatwith one possible exception, there really isn't anything which wouldhave made much of a difference.

Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), youhave to look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreationalgun owners.ï¿½ In every case I've thought of (restricting total number ofguns, restricting ammo purchases, etc.), it seems based on theinformation we have that this attack could have been carried out withaccess to the exact same arsenal that a recreational gun user shouldhave access to.ï¿½ï¿½ (Assuming one buys into the belief that there shouldbe recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path, since thatwould definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on thislist).

The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helpedis further restricting devices designed to effectively convertnon-automatic weapons to automatic functions.ï¿½ I find it irrational thatone would restrict automatic weapons, but would not apply similarrestrictions to "conversion" products.ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ On the other hand, I canthink of dozens of ways to modify a semi-automatic to automaticfunctions, many of which made easier to accomplish with the prevalenceof 3d printing.

Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the causehere.ï¿½ï¿½ Access to guns is not the problem.ï¿½ï¿½ Having people who want touse guns (or other weapons) in this way is the problem - the question ishow do we solve that one?


/*Gino A. Villarini*/

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammowithout your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, andyep, you gotta have both on you to carry.Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.


So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.

None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nutjobs.


On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:

    I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the
    pleasure of waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that
    we purchased. in the state of Nevada there is no waiting period and
    they can be purchased over the counter

    On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com
    <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:

        How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo
        without setting off all sorts of sirens?ï¿½ You would think ATF
        would have some sort of triggers set for when someone buys a
        bunch of guns and ammo.

        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza
        <losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
        wrote:

        59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with
        thousands of rounds plus electronics of some kind.

        On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup"
        <george.sko...@cbcast.com <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

        s/clip/magazine

        Sorry Bill, had to.

        On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

            Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes;
            maybe 15 or 20 or so. From the sound, you could hear what
            sounded like automatic weapon fire going and going until the
            clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then there
            was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30
            seconds"), then another round with another clip. There were
            at least 6 or 7 clips.

            There are probably eye witness errors in the above
            description, but if it's even close to correct, it is pretty
            scary.

            bp

            <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

            On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

                How long did this event last?

                 From the time he started shooting how long until police
                found him and he killed himself ?

                Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

                ----- Reply message -----
                From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
                <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
                To: "af@afmug.com" <mailto:af@afmug.com> <af@afmug.com>
                <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
                Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM

                I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the
                authorities can find a motive. Iï¿½ve got family up there
                in Law Enforcement but havenï¿½t heard from them yet.

                Rory

                *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
                *Adam Moffett
                *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
                *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

                +1, let's please not get into a political fight.

                ------ Original Message ------

                From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>

                To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

                Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM

                Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

                    While I won't get into gun politics I will say there
                    are a bunch of extremely fervent views on the
                    subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind
                    them. I am not sure the opposing sides think the
                    opposition's reasons are valid. I think we can
                    agree, without political discussions, that crazy is
                    crazy. And while I hate to see this like everyone
                    else, I don't think most freedom loving people would
                    be willing to do what it takes to stop all
                    potentially crazy people from doing such things.

                    I would hope to head off any political debates on
                    the list.

                    On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy
                    <jeremysmi...@gmail.com
                    <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

                        I had never seen these bump stop devices.ï¿½ It is
                        hard to believe that they are legal, and do not
                        require a machine gun license.ï¿½ I expect that
                        will not last.

                        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza
                        <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                        <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

                        Well crazy is crazy no matter what.ï¿½ I don't
                        care what allegiance they claim..this was a

massacre committed by a fucked up person.People died for no good reason.ï¿½ As much heat as

                        I will take for this, easy access to guns has
                        got to change.ï¿½ Fuck the politics.

                        On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum"
                        <cc...@wispmon.com <mailto:cc...@wispmon.com>>
                        wrote:

                        Well that is some relief.

                        On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert
                        <i...@avantwireless.com
                        <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

                            FBI says no...

                            On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

                                ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert
                                and they are responsible, not verified
                                yet, but if true is pretty scary.

                                On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis
                                Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ I have never been asked any
                                questions coming in and out of Vegas
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ hotels. There are so many
                                conventions they are used to people who
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ don't like storing all their
                                expensive gear in the conference room
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ or whatever.

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM
                                Steve Jones

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt
                                alot of real estate for travel
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ luggage transport

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime
                                Solorza"

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ <losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>>


                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ Bet you surveillance
                                footage is getting analyzed.ï¿½ I am
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ aware guns can be
                                disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ bags...but 10 guns if
                                report is accurate...wow.
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM,
                                "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com
                                <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>

<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com

                                <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>>> wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ Expect metal 
detectors
                                going in immediately...

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ On 10/2/17 
7:56 AM, Jay
                                Weekley wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ I 
won't be
                                surprised if there were baggage checks at
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ the 
casino.

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ Mike 
Hammett wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ It would be
                                irrational to change your plans, but
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ we're all just
                                people.



                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ -----
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ Mike Hammett
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ Intelligent
                                Computing Solutions

<http://www.ics-il.com/><https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>><https://twitter.com/ICSIL

<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>>

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ Midwest
                                Internet Exchange

<http://www.midwest-ix.com/><https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>><https://twitter.com/mdwestix

<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>>

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ The Brothers WISP

<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>><https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
*From: *"Kurt
                                Fankhauser"

<lists.wavel...@gmail.com

                                <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>

<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com

                                <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>>
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ *To:
                                *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                                <mailto:af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>


                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ *Sent: *Monday,
                                October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ *Subject: *Re:
                                [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ I wonder if
                                attendance to the WISPA show will be
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ down from this

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ On Mon, Oct 2,
                                2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley

<par...@cyberbroadband.net

                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>

<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net

                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>

<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net

                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>

<mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net

                                <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>>> wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ A week
                                later and some of us may have been
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ at the concert.

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ Robert wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ A best
                                friend and his brother were
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ there and had
                                bullets

wizzing by him and hitting the ground

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ around him and had
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ people
                                falling around him.

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ On
                                10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ I
                                have a co-worker who is there on
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ a vacation for his

birthday until Wednesday. Haven't

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ heard from him yet.

                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ On
                                Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
                                 ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½ 
ï¿½ Christian (List
                                Account)"

<li...@packetflux.com

                                <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>