Andrew, Paa Kwesi, Anja, all, A few quick thoughts...
--- In AfricanLanguages@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cunningham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: . . . [Andrew]> Most linguistics books and papers I've seen for the African languages > I work with every rarely use the established orthography, rather they > tend to write the language using the IPA. I guess I'll have to go back to look at some more materials. I seem to recall that at least for the languages of West Africa that I had most exposure to, they were written in established orthography. But these used some characters from IPA (that decision goes back 40-75 years) - characters that are now in the IPA range of Unicode (lower case) and other extended ranges (capital letters). It is true that people don't follow whatever is supposed to be the established rule because: (1) they don't know (usually people who were schooled in English or French but not their mother tongue); (2) they think they know better (usually experts, and maybe they really do or don't); or (3) some technical issue having to do with the computers or user skills. [Andrew]> As to whether Yoruba tones are linguistic annotations or not. That > will depend on who you speak too, and ultimately official It will be interesting to see how this evolves as more people use Yoruba. The convenience issue is one thing (easier to dispense with tone marks than to go to the trouble to add them). Also a question of habit. I think in Vietnamese (perhaps the most complex use of the Latin script plus diacritics), where kids learn to read and have the advantage of exposure to a lot of written material, people apparently get used to certain patterns and combinations for words and sounds. So they write them (like we in English write through rather than thru). Not sure how things will shape out in African languages. On the other hand, if there were today a speech-to-text program for Yoruba, the technical ability to analyze tone (can we do that?) and the choice of the programmers to account for tone or not could have an important effect on written Yoruba (and whatever other language - there are lots of tonal languages in Africa of course). > > [Paa Kwesi]> > The problem of ambiguity can easily be solved by using an unambiguous writing style. For example the ff made up English sentence is considered bad writing style even though it is grammatically correct: > > > > > > Refuse? Yes, refuse. > > > [Andrew]> Not that mabiguious of an axample as an exhortation. Resolving > ambiguity through unambiguous writing style seems to be counter > productive. In the sense that one one hand it drives a larger wedge > between orality and literacy. So that sentence patterns and writing > style is further divoorced form the spoken language. > > And form the point of view of the written word as an artistic form, > you create a stilted, artificial writing style. Poetry, poetic prose, > satire and other forms require the ambiguity you recommend removing > form the written language. > > The equivalent wold be trying to write English poetry in "plain" > English. Doesn't work. > > Writing style is contextual. It depends on what you are writing. In > most European languages different types of docuemnt may have different > writing styles. I'd use a different writing styles for training > materials or government reports, or academic papers or prose or > poetry. There is a lot here to think about. I think I understand where Paa Kwesi is coming from but tend to think that Andrew is right about writing styles. In effect we write, as we speak, in different registers (for different purposes). Often there is overlap. I got a comment once that I write like I speak (or was it the other way around?). Then there are things in speech or in writing that don't translate well from one to the other. Then new forms arising like the infamous IM (instant messaging) styles. I mentioned speech-to-text - I think that has potential to blur boundaries further, but having used one of these softwares, I also realize that you interact with it in a different way than you would say with a sound recording device (or with another person when you weren't being recorded). But there still is writing style(s) to be considered and in the cases of languages where written communication is not that common, these things will develop. Orthographies and rules for them may facilitate use of the written forms in ways that relate constructively to the spoken forms. IOW, this I think was the reason for the WYSIWYG approach (BTW, this description was not my invention but one I learned from a Fulfulde text written by Sonja Fagerberg-Diallo some years ago). I guess the return trip of WYSIWYG ("what you see is what you get") is WYTSHIWYW ("what you think/speak/hear is what you write" - don't try pronouncing that acronym, by the way). Well I'll leave it there for now. There is quite a lot written on this general topic of transcriptions and writing - in the case of African language transcriptions one of the earlier was a colonial era document (with some colonial era references) at: http://www.bisharat.net/Documents/poal30.htm Best to all... Don ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3EuRwD/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/TpIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! 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