Penrose was right that quantum mechanics is incomplete. It is a good approximation of an unknown unified theory when the effects of gravity can be ignored. More importantly it does not explain the existence of time irreversible processes that write into memory, when both quantum mechanics and general relativity are both symmetric with regard to time.
We call such processes observers. Everett explains the apparent randomness of quantum mechanics that Einstein rejected and of entanglement thus: a system containing observers is described by a deterministic wave equation. But because an observer cannot have complete knowledge of the system that contains it, it sees random particles instead of waves. Quantum mechanics says that particles like atoms and photons are illusions. The arrow of time is an illusion. You could say that observers are conscious if you want. But that doesn't explain anything. Any computing device with input that stores memory is an observer. Neither quantum mechanics nor general relativity explains their existence. Penrose has this backwards. He is looking for unitary (time reversible) quantum processes in the brain to explain why time irreversible processes exist. -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] On Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 7:19 PM Quan Tesla <[email protected]> wrote: > Not an Orch-OR like synthetic, but a number-theoretic, classical/quantum > enabled computational platform, which interfaces with an Orch-OR like > lattice and numerous leading-edge theorems. Basically, relating to the body > of science. > > I don't agree with an "all is consciousness" multiversal universe as an > absolute. This has not been tested. I concluded that the Copenhagen > interpretation has to be incomplete. > > Surely, multiple interpretations should be equally possible before > naturally selecting for a particular shortest-path form. > > What I'd propose is the existence of a structure of a proto-consciousness > hologtsphic reality up to superscales. > > From the natural physics the potential for emergence of > architecturally-dependent, elemental consciousness should exist. Let's do > the work to prove/disprove this. > > Any specific "architectural" structure would determine the fixed limit of > what could be achieved for it, and for realising degrees of consciousness. > > In this view, a rock cannot be consciouss, but a simple organism may > exhibit environmental and self-similar awareness. > > Within this proposed reality, a version of consciousness relative to the > material, quantum-capable physical entity may statistically emerge. AI may > yet emerge with a degree of generalized consciousness. > > Here, "quantum" simply means the micro physical and elemental world, at > the minimum including for the SM, QED, QFT, QCD, constructor field > lattices, primorials, autopoietic dynamic entropy clockwork, and the wave > function. > > We need to progress fundamentally. IMO, there's a revival afoot in the > literature. I don't doubt this is mostly being catalyzed by AI. > > On Tue, 11 Aug 2026, 19:31 John Rose via AGI, <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Tuesday, August 11, 2026, at 1:28 AM, Quan Tesla wrote: >> >> Implemented as a feature, and for plausible scientific reasons, I think >> it is improbable that a consciousness-enabled core could be protocol >> agnostic and remain functional. >> >> >> Are you referring to an Orch-OR-like synthetic? I’m trying to keep the >> Taoist everything is conscious and build higher levels for more >> concentrated systems on that base. IMO there is some shortest description >> length universal protocol on a substrate(s) but I think that some derived >> protocols may carry transmission. And/or if it goes out-of-band. We know >> there is some OOB, for example telepathy, but that slips into regular >> transmission, like a dual full-duplex channel dual-mediumed with >> semireciprocal-back-coupled retrocognition. I don't know if classical >> neural networks can model that leaving Penrose still promising. >> >> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + > delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> > Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T906c878e4ba411be-M16e76c6533cc7821ab765476> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T906c878e4ba411be-Mca2b1e132403d964851960b1 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
