John, I've pretty much given up on Mike and Sergio who, because they just don't understand what mathematics is all about, having dismissed it in favor of numerology's promises. There is absolutely NOTHING that you or I could possibly say to bring them back from this abyss. Whatever could have been said to them should have been said decades ago, but wasn't. I blame our intellectually bankrupt school system, that teaches mathematical techniques without ever covering what it is really about. As a result, Mike and Sergio are running in this crazy direction, without an ability to even discuss the issues in a rational way.
I see this as VERY different from Ben, who though he was also running in a related crazy direction, he had the background to be able to rationally discuss other views. I now see that Ben's own views are shifting, and I have high hopes for his future once he gets all this worked out in his own mind. Meanwhile, you have been the "rock" in this group - doing what you can to keep everyone rational. Keep up the good work. Steve ======================= On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:12 AM, John G. Rose <[email protected]>wrote: > Next you will ask me to define math. Then define define. Those words are > symbols. Without them this is what you get: " " > > Do you see anything there? It is the absence of symbols. That too has > meaning and meaning plus meaning + meaning + meaning is the same as lots of > meaning, meaning + meaning = meaning... but the absence of symbols > indicates nothing equals nada = zippo = 0. > > Are you understanding this? "This" in your mind at this moment not over > there, here, now, less than later, < later ... > now, greater than, > > than, > >> now = much later. > > Should I continue? No? Not? 0=NO. 1=YES. Maybe? Maybeeee many times, 10 x > maybe = maybe maybe maybe maybe...same as very possibly. > > Use your imagination :) > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > Ok. "That's just the way it is" is your example. > > > > Now you have to explain how it is mathematical - and you have to relate > it > to > > mathematical symbology or figures - the actual stuff of maths - not > concepts > > or ideas which are merely about, and not intrinsic to, maths. > > > > We'll wait for your answer - and you won't be able to show any > relationship > > of your example to maths. > > > > "Way" for example is a physical concept - but "in no way" is it > mathematical. > > > > This BTW is important. Conceptual thought is the stuff of AGI - and it > is > > precisely what maths can't handle. Maths has been a total failure in > terms > of > > AGI. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John G. Rose > > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:43 PM > > To: AGI > > Subject: RE: [agi] How Steve can be creative (or: The Nature of > > Intelligence/AGI) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > > > You've just stated* that I am forming a math. model - and given not > > > the slightest reason or evidence, other than "that's just the way it > is." > > > > > > I gave you examples of general/ conceptual thought - none of them are > > > mathematical. Mathematical thought is in fact demonstrably the > > > opposite of conceptual thought - "specific general" vs "general > > > general" (truly general). Maths is always tied to specifics. > > > Conceptual thought is on the contrary always vague. > > > > > > None of you can (or will ) give any examples of a mathematical concept. > > > Boris merely exploded when challenged. You have retreated into fantasy. > > > > > > In real world reasoning, John - you reason from the *evidence* and > > > produce examples. Try it sometime. > > > > > > > > > > That's the example -> "That's just the way it is." Both specific and > general. I > > offer that structure from my mind to your mind. It is symbols and action. > You > > deconstruct/construct. It has handles in your memory that start > connections > > to other actions and memories in your mind. It's a meme and a teme > > (Blackmore). It is Symbols and Operations. It is a mathematical structure > > operated on mathematically by your mind even though your mind readily > > denies it as anti-mathematter.. :) > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > AGI > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829- > > 59a2eca5 > > Modify Your Subscription: > > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > AGI > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029- > > d0d678e2 > > Modify Your Subscription: > > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > e08df8db > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full employment. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
